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First, a question: Do Berman And Bragga HAVE any Trekkie supporters at all?

Remember those stories we've all read about past Trekkies? The mail-in campaigns to keep Trek (TOS) on the air? The bumpersticker incidents on NBC executive's cars? Getting the first shuttle named Enterprise?

So what happened to them?

All I see are Trekkies flaming mad over the current state of Trek, and its gotten worse since Nemesis came out. So why aren't there protests at Paramount's gates? Why is no one speaking up at Trek conventions? Why doesn't anyone heckle the current regime at those conventions?

For fuck's sake, there was more organization for the "Captain Sulu" TV show proposal....

1. Yes they do have support from Trekkers. I doubt they are many.

2. Don't know.

3. People are lazy? Actually many Trek conventions has been put down due to lack of support from Trek TV stars, and very few did come to the conventions. I think that is the way of Trekkers and scifi fans way to protests against Fucktard 1 and Fucktard 2 for controlling Star Trek.

Actually B&B have NON Trekkie supporters now. I have a friend who never really liked Trek and couldn't stand Voyager, but he enjoys watching Enterprise. B&B don't really care about the core fan base anymore. That much is obvious with how they've trampled all over TOS.

B&B have some support from Trekkies. If you'll go to TrekBBS, there are many adament defenders of the current state of Trek.

In my experience, however, they appear to have more support from non-Trekkies, who have only just picked up ST since VOY, or even later, and have never seen TOS, TNG, or even DS9.

That is why they have screwed up Ent. They wanted a Trek that could pull in new blood who hadn't seen the older Treks. Those sick bastards don't even care that it is shit. They are using Baywatch tatics like big boobs and the decom. chamber is my exibt A.

First, a question: Do Berman And Bragga HAVE any Trekkie supporters at all?

They seem to have been picking up a steadly lower brow audience (the same sort of demographics as wrestling, which says a lot) with Voyager and Enterprise. Those are the idiots that seem to compose the bulk of the fans of current and recent Trek. Even then support is waning.

So what happened to them?

They killed off most of the rabid fans when they mutilated the series. I doubt there's a one of them that's watched TOS or it's movies. And most fans now seem to only have a passing aquaintance with TNG or DS9.

All I see are Trekkies flaming mad over the current state of Trek, and its gotten worse since Nemesis came out. So why aren't there protests at Paramount's gates? Why is no one speaking up at Trek conventions? Why doesn't anyone heckle the current regime at those conventions?

No one's speaking up because at this point people don't care. It's become clear that B&B and Paramount have no regard for the fans so what's the use? Those fans have been disregarded and indeed replaced with the Lowest Common Denominator.

And frankly I think part of it is because (and I speak as one of those people) that think Trek ought to just die. Simply end the show, the books, and the avalanche of shitty merchandise. The dream's dead for most fans and the taint won't go away from the franchise (not necessaroily a particular series) for them so they'd just rather see it dead.

There's a psychological principle known as "learned helplessness" at work here. Basically, experiments show that if you shock an animal, it will jump or run away from the area, to try to escape the shock. If you tie it down and then shock it, it will learn that it can do nothing to escape the shocks. If you then untie the thing and shock it, it will not attempt to escape from the electricity.

Something similar is going on, here. Trekkies have kind of learned that their criticisms fall on deaf ears (statements like "Don't like the theme song? Use the MUTE button," "Continuity sucks." "Oh, well," etc. further this belief). They have thus learned to do nothing. Although previously, their attempts to save an excellent sci-fi series were quite successful (ref. TOS, TNG), the Trekkies have learned that their attempts are presently ineffective, and have chosen to simply gripe about the situation but not make any additional serious efforts to fight against B&B.

I would also suggest to you that the fanaticism of many Trekkies has been ebbing. While most of them are still loyal enough to ST to watch the show, I don't see that many of them are willing to dress up as Mr. Spock and go out of state for conventions, the way they used to. There certainly aren't many original Trekkies left, anymore, and the newer series didn't seem to inspire quite the same loyalty as TOS. I would attribute this in part to the non-revolutionary nature of TNG, DS9, and VOY, but part of the problem (if it is a problem) is doubtless due to the steeper competition on the sci-fi series market. With shows like B5, Buffy, SG-1, Farscape, and X-Files on the market, it has become more difficult for ST to attract the huge audiences that it used to draw. The shows I listed pull from a wide variety of audiences, but all of them were and are fairly popular and inspire considerable loyalty from their target demographics--eroding the previously monopolistic power that ST had over science fiction.

I think a lot of people loved Star Trek because there was so much potential for it, and when the potential was squandered they gave up.

well there is those of us that still love The Wrath Of Kahn

While Star Trek is dwindling down fast Babylon 5 fans has increased since the series ended.

To qoute blackadder:

"B&B want somethng to boost the fans moral, cheer them up."
"Their resignation and suicide would be a start"

With shows like B5, Buffy, SG-1, Farscape, and X-Files on the market, it has become more difficult for ST to attract the huge audiences that it used to draw. The shows I listed pull from a wide variety of audiences, but all of them were and are fairly popular and inspire considerable loyalty from their target demographics--eroding the previously monopolistic power that ST had over science fiction.

I don't think that it's entirely the proliferation of new shows. The space shows you mentioned tended to have a lot of trekkies and ex-trekkies as fans. And obviously fans aren't required to be one or the other so if the show is worth it there can be cross franchise fans.

The problem with B&B's Trek is it's bland, uninvolving crap. It's hard to be loyal to a show that you can't stand to watch.

The fact that there are so many other shows of the same genre goes to show that there can be a lot of shows. But it does mean that people won't tune in to crap because it's the only thing available.

Alyeska wrote:Actually B&B have NON Trekkie supporters now. I have a friend who never really liked Trek and couldn't stand Voyager, but he enjoys watching Enterprise. B&B don't really care about the core fan base anymore. That much is obvious with how they've trampled all over TOS.

Trampled it? Hell they haven't even SEEN it and are PROUD of the fact. The only thing B&B care about is the obscene amount of money Paramount has to pay them regardless of how mind-numbingly terrible the crap thaey churn out is.

It's part of a broad societal trend. B&B are the Britney Spears of sci-fi. Mediocre, bland, predictable, and ... oh yeah, whores.

Apathetic? Well, I suppose it is hard to care for something that's turned to utter shit. Probably why most Trek fans have deserted by this point.

Personally I like ST:N , since I first saw ST:FC i've wanted to see the E:E in a battle like that, showing us what its made off. admitally I didn't love it.

first contact for me has been by far the best generations movie, but even that I don't think has come into the same league as the Wrath of khan , the old movies with kirk, I liked simply because they stuck to the TOS , even one of them had the klingons in as the bad guys, each movie led onto the next or had some infulence on the other, bar ST:5 which I thought just plan sucked. we saw kirks hatred of the klingons for murdering his son which with ST:6 gave us some closer on that.

but with the movies based on the TNG , there is nothing leading on following any great plan all , so far only one movie has been in any way related to the series, and given how many gaps the TNG writers left for future movies or eps, I think its pritty worrying that none of them have been pounced apon.

I lost interest in ST in the first 2 seasons of voyager and because of voyager I didn't watch the DS9 which I thought overall was a pritty good series. voyager killed ST for me as a TV series, and I won't be making any effort to go out of my way to watch enterprise as I used to do with TNG and early DS9.

Stormbringer wrote: I don't think that it's entirely the proliferation of new shows.

I completely agree. There are obviously a multitude of other factors involved (some of which aren't even B&B's fault), however I think that the stiffening competition for ST since B5 came out has made it more difficult for ST to find an audience.

The space shows you mentioned tended to have a lot of trekkies and ex-trekkies as fans. And obviously fans aren't required to be one or the other so if the show is worth it there can be cross franchise fans.

True, however it is more difficult to follow more than a couple of shows at the same time. I think it fairly clear that ENT cannot compete in terms of quality with some of the shows that I mentioned (or, at least, has not), and I think it clear that some people have been disillusioned by ST and gone to other shows. I've heard things like, "I don't watch ENT because [SG1/B5/X-Files] are better." There's just not the same drive to newer and more interesting scenarios that have always driven ST.

The problem with B&B's Trek is it's bland, uninvolving crap. It's hard to be loyal to a show that you can't stand to watch.

I agree. Their show is the primary problem, and the fact that it's obviously weaker than things like B5 has only quickened its demise.

The fact that there are so many other shows of the same genre goes to show that there can be a lot of shows. But it does mean that people won't tune in to crap because it's the only thing available.

Exactly. There IS cross-elasticity among sci-fi shows in general, and there's cross-elasciticy between ENT and shows like "Alias." ENT hasn't been competing in terms of quality, and with other shows that are seen as superior available to viewers, they can change the channel to something they find more appealing.