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I sometimes wonder, was there a golden age to the Federation as seen in the shows? I mean, I figure that post-Borg, the Federation was no longer in a golden age, and Enterprise... yeah, we won't go there. So I'm wondering, was the Federation in a golden age in TOS? TNG? Both? Neither? Opinions please

TNG, pre-Borg. Relations with the Klingons were good, the Romulans weren't being pests, and things were good in the core worlds - no war, no famine, no poverty. Even post-Borg things were good, it only begins to get grim around late-DS9, with the Dominion War.

I would actually say the Golden era were the unseen years between TOS and TNG. Somewhere in there the Feds made peace with the Klingons, the Romulans retreated into their teritory, the Federation expanded dramatically, new ships and tech were made and larger sizes of ships representing that were made. The military faction of Starfleet decreased indicating less war and strife.

Yeah, the early 24th century sounds like a good point to say the 'Golden Age' of the Federation.

The Romulans had retreated behind their territory, but relations with the Klingons were up and down during that period - with a particular low point around the time of the Narendra III incident where the Enterprise-C sacrificed herself to defend the Klingon colony. After that point, the Klingons and Federation relations improved.

I agree with your other points.

The period between the Khitomer conference and the Tomed Incident: relations with the Klingons were relatively friendly and the empire was in no ability capable to threath the Federation, and the Romulan Empire was a true ally (see where the Romulan ambassador to the Federation first appears and find me another explanation that makes sense). After Tomed (or immediately before) the Romulans went neutral at best and relations with the Klingon started becoming more shaky.

I assume you are referring to the Romulan Ambassador being present at Colonel West's briefing in STVI? Note that he is also a member of the conspiracy. So not that good an ally.

The President certainly wasn't in on it, though, and he still allowed the Romulan ambassador to sit in on a briefing about a potential military operation in Klingon territory. That seems to indicate the Romulans and the Federation were on pretty good terms at the time.

RedImperator wrote:The President certainly wasn't in on it, though, and he still allowed the Romulan ambassador to sit in on a briefing about a potential military operation in Klingon territory. That seems to indicate the Romulans and the Federation were on pretty good terms at the time.

Yes but it could also be a case of "We might suddenly find ourselves in a war and we'd rather you know what's going on before you hear about it on the news". The Federation was about to be using military force near the Klingon border and maybe even close to the Romulan border, and by telling the Romulans what's going on, the Romulans won't freak out and assume the Federation is about to attack.

Baffalo wrote:

RedImperator wrote:The President certainly wasn't in on it, though, and he still allowed the Romulan ambassador to sit in on a briefing about a potential military operation in Klingon territory. That seems to indicate the Romulans and the Federation were on pretty good terms at the time.

Yes but it could also be a case of "We might suddenly find ourselves in a war and we'd rather you know what's going on before you hear about it on the news". The Federation was about to be using military force near the Klingon border and maybe even close to the Romulan border, and by telling the Romulans what's going on, the Romulans won't freak out and assume the Federation is about to attack.

You can accomplish that without letting the Romulan ambassador sit in on the fucking briefing. That'd be like Bush inviting the Syrian ambassador to sit in on war planning meetings so he'd know we planned to bomb Iraq.

It's a long time since I last watched the movie, but weren't Romulan ships included in the plan?

lord Martiya wrote:It's a long time since I last watched the movie, but weren't Romulan ships included in the plan?

No, Operation Retrieve (Brilliant naming btw) was only going to use Federation ships from Starbase 24 to enter Klingon territory and rescue Kirk and McCoy from Rura Pente. The plan was vetoed by the president. No mention is made of Romulan forces, and from the images made available:




I see no evidence of Romulans being involved.

Stofsk wrote:The Romulans had retreated behind their territory, but relations with the Klingons were up and down during that period - with a particular low point around the time of the Narendra III incident where the Enterprise-C sacrificed herself to defend the Klingon colony. After that point, the Klingons and Federation relations improved.

I agree with your other points.

There a couple other rough patches, such as war with the Cardassians and the Tzenkethi. I'm more inclined towards your original assessment, of early TNG and maybe a decade or so beforehand too.

Skylon wrote:

Stofsk wrote:The Romulans had retreated behind their territory, but relations with the Klingons were up and down during that period - with a particular low point around the time of the Narendra III incident where the Enterprise-C sacrificed herself to defend the Klingon colony. After that point, the Klingons and Federation relations improved.

I agree with your other points.

There a couple other rough patches, such as war with the Cardassians and the Tzenkethi. I'm more inclined towards your original assessment, of early TNG and maybe a decade or so beforehand too.

The war with Cardassia was a decade before TNG.

I don't know, you could argue that the Federation will be entering a Golden Age post Dominion War. They have defeated the greatest military threat the Federation has ever encountered and though battered and bruised have come out the stronger for it especially in light of the fate of its allies - The Klingons are bloodied and suffered some of the heaviest casaulties in the war - particularly as it neared the end with Gawlron's horrible war planning during the 2 week period the Klingons faced the Dominion-Breen alliance alone.

The Cardassians are finished as a power, capital world devastated, under enemy occupation and fleets decimated.

Romulans are in better shape overall as they probably suffered the lightest casualties coming into the war late but in Nemesis we see that politically they are ruined as their senate is killed by an uprising from their slave race so the Romulans will probably be politically unstable for some time.

Out of all the Alpha Quadrant powers the Federation is the most stable politically, economically and militarily. No one will be able to directly challenge her either due to their inability or because of the political good will generated by the Alliance.

Which leads to an interesting point of whether the Federation will try to build consensus - as is their forte and leverage the military alliance against the Dominion into something more lasting like a long term Alliance of the major Alpha Quadrant powers. If they succeed that would by definition be something that the Federation would view as their greatest achievement. A quadrant alliance that would be nearly unassailable and properous.

So as gloomy as the DS9 ending was we may be looking at the seeds of their upcoming Golden Age under the right circumstances.

I say after Star Terk Nemesis UFP no longer at war Romulan Star Empire and face no known military power threaten it.

JasonB wrote:I say after Star Terk Nemesis UFP no longer at war Romulan Star Empire and face no known military power threaten it.

What the fuck?

The Federation wasn't at war with the Romulan Star Empire, and they had plenty of threats to worry about. The entire Dominion War was fought in the alpha quadrant except for a few skirmishes in the Gamma Quadrant, the Borg are still lurking around somewhere, and JANEWAY is a fucking ADMIRAL! Everyone in Starfleet is going to die a horrible, horrible death.

Should we accept the Star Trek novel EU in this? Because a couple years after Nemesis we have a Romulan civil war, a complete invasion by the Borg and then a new cold war with the Typhon Pact.

There's at least two post-TNG continuities now, since STO has established it's own that borrows from but doesn't follow the novel EU... but neither show the UFP entering a glorious new Golden Age of peace and prosperity.

Steve wrote:There's at least two post-TNG continuities now, since STO has established it's own that borrows from but doesn't follow the novel EU... but neither show the UFP entering a glorious new Golden Age of peace and prosperity.

And neither are canon.

Also, Baffalo, Voyager's finale suggests that the Borg are gone.

Apparently neither STO nor the novel EU took that tack. Too many writers looking to write the ULTIMATE THREAT and such, I imagine. Well, with STO it's understandable at least, the Borg make for an intimidating and appropriate end-game content opponent (as well as a "are you shitting me, I have to fight them?!" effect for the game tutorial missions).

Yeah, its odd, but I rather enjoyed the relaunch TNG novels like Death in Winter, Q&A, etc.. Where they're just exploring the galaxy and having wacky adventure than, oh look, another Borg attack, another war.