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It's been argued that the United Federation of Planets is a communist government, making everyone share according to their needs and occasionally letting a few individuals obtain items that are unique. However, I have to wonder, almost all communist governments have been traditionally hostile towards organized religion, and a quick glance at Memory Alpha shows a giant list of alien religions and cultures, but very few from Earth. They include the occasional mention to Greek mythology, Christianity, etc, but we never really see much mentioned of normal, modern religions. We don't hear very many mentions of someone going to temple, going to pray, etc.

So... does that mean that when the Federation was formed, or when the governments of Earth united, they did away with all religion? Told everyone to stop practicing? I don't know if any government, even the united governments of Earth, could completely eliminate all organized religions throughout the world. Or did they decide to do away with the ones that the majority of their viewers knew about?

Only reference I've seen is in one of the novels where Kim says religion doesn’t play a role in the modern human’s life.

I'd take that to say that religion has been either educated/indoctrinated out of the majority of the population. Or that as our almost sole view of Federation life is based on Starfleet personnel and their families that the training/selection regime either ignores or suppresses any religious candidates.

Christian wedding in Balance of Terror
Hindu Festival of Light in Data's Day
Chakotay's verious "native american" beliefs

There are quite a few mentionings of human religion in ST. It's not all stamped out, just not as prominent as it once used to be.

Metahive wrote:Christian wedding in Balance of Terror
Hindu Festival of Light in Data's Day
Chakotay's verious "native american" beliefs

There are quite a few mentionings of human religion in ST. It's not all stamped out, just not as prominent as it once used to be.

Those might just have been old festivals and ceremonies that have been kept, but are now mostly non-religious (not familiar with those instances, just a possibility).

As for Chakotay - he isn't even an official Federation citizen, he is a Marquis! That's hardly evidence for the Federations stance on religion!
That aside, the Federation can easily allow religion under the label of "cultural tolerance" (read: blatant racism). Since Chakotay has a native background, he'd likely get special rights. That could also explain other instances of observed religion.


Either way, it does not disprove the many communist aspects of the Federation. That'd be like arguing that the USA is not a Republic because it is not identical to the Roman Republic, or that it is not a democracy because it is not identical to the Greece City-State Democracies.

Serafina wrote:
As for Chakotay - he isn't even an official Federation citizen, he is a Marquis! That's hardly evidence for the Federations stance on religion!
That aside, the Federation can easily allow religion under the label of "cultural tolerance" (read: blatant racism). Since Chakotay has a native background, he'd likely get special rights. That could also explain other instances of observed religion.

However, every member of the Maquis is a former Federation citizen (as their territories had been Federation colonies). And there is zero evidence that the Maquis broke away due to any religious discrimination.

In the TOS ep "Where No Man Has Gone Before", when Mitchell refers to himself as a "god" to Dr. Dehner he remarks that it is not blasphemy, suggesting some may still believe in a god.

In TMP, when discussion V'Ger, Spock notes that at some point in life, "each of us" asks "a father, a brother or a god" if there is more to their existence.

McCoy always struck me as someone with a Christian background. Look how ready he was to accept he'd met God in ST V ("You don't ask the almighty for his ID!").

By Star Trek, my impression was religion was no longer the driving force behind people's lives, but still lingered for some.

Skylon wrote:However, every member of the Maquis is a former Federation citizen (as their territories had been Federation colonies). And there is zero evidence that the Maquis broke away due to any religious discrimination.

In the TOS ep "Where No Man Has Gone Before", when Mitchell refers to himself as a "god" to Dr. Dehner he remarks that it is not blasphemy, suggesting some may still believe in a god.

In TMP, when discussion V'Ger, Spock notes that at some point in life, "each of us" asks "a father, a brother or a god" if there is more to their existence.

McCoy always struck me as someone with a Christian background. Look how ready he was to accept he'd met God in ST V ("You don't ask the almighty for his ID!").

By Star Trek, my impression was religion was no longer the driving force behind people's lives, but still lingered for some.

I haven't seen "Where no Man Has gone Before" so I can't comment directly on it. However, in TMP, Spock might have simply been referring to how, either in the present or the past, people sought religion as an explanation to what lies beyond death. That doesn't imply anything other than Spock is aware that some religions do seek to answer that question, but that's about the most I can read out of the context of the quote.

McCoy does seem to be more willing to believe in a God, but in Star Trek V, don't forget that he'd been partially brainwashed by Sabak and his cohorts, and they were staring at a giant, disembodied head. He might have been so terrified and confused that he might have believed he was really looking at God. That's about as far as I feel like going with that one.

TOS "Bread and Circuses" at least made it known that several of the characters (Spock included) understood who Christ was and his significance in history. The script cleverly doesn't give anything else away, in what would otherwise be an awesome opening for a religious debate (especially from the half-alien!). But even in the absence of religion, they're certainly still learning about Christ in school.

TOS "Balance of Terror" is an interesting one. Captain Kirk takes pleasure not in acting as a pastor or reverend, but in acting out a tradition carried by all naval captains to wed the couple. The wedding ceremony takes place in a "chapel" which appears nondenominational and for general purpose use--the same seating arrangement is more or less used for Kirk's wake/funeral service in "The Tholian Web". The wedding march is "Here Comes The Bride", again a catch-all tune for a wedding. But don't forget at the end of the processional, Angela kneels in prayer. To whom, I wonder?

EDIT: McCoy at least is always taking the Lord's name in vain. I'll never forget Star Trek II when he sees the Ceti Eel--"God's sakes! What is it?"

McCoy makes reference to the Bible too. In The Wrath of Kahn he's clearly familiar with the Genesis story.

Of course, they could be getting this stuff second hand. We know they have literary works like Shakespear and Moby Dick around, which are full of religious references.

McCoy comes from a region that, barring very strange sociological trends, will hang onto its religion for a long time to come. It's integrated into the culture to the point where trying to suppress it through brutality would backfire, and trying to marginalize it would just cause the locals to rally against outsider-culture. His being a Christian (in some particular variation on the theme) is entirely logical given his background, even in the 2200s.

I wouldn't say that the Federation is actively atheist, but it is very firmly secular, in the true sense: they do not get involved in religion at all, and 'live' on a plane that simply does not interact with it. There is no tradition of the state invoking religion, but neither is there a tradition of them actively trying to suppress it- or at least we don't see one in the series as far as I know.

I'd project from this that religion winds up being treated like gardening or needlepoint or historical reenactment: it's a hobby, you can do it, and in institutions like the Enterprise the state will try and provide some public space for you to do it in, for the sake of your own happiness.

And like gardening, needlepoint, or historical reenactment, it's basically irrelevant to the function of the state and the parts of society under the state's control: it's part of every citizen's freedom of thought and conscience, not part of official public discourse.

Simon_Jester wrote:McCoy comes from a region that, barring very strange sociological trends, will hang onto its religion for a long time to come. It's integrated into the culture to the point where trying to suppress it through brutality would backfire, and trying to marginalize it would just cause the locals to rally against outsider-culture. His being a Christian (in some particular variation on the theme) is entirely logical given his background, even in the 2200s.

Indeed, the actor himself was the son of a Baptist minister. He certainly hung onto his own background in creating the role.

Destructionator XIII wrote:Keep in mind that even today, your typical religious person isn't in your face about it, especially in a professional setting. Since most of what we watch on screen is these people at work, there's not much reason for them to pontificate about their personal beliefs or practices (unless it's a Worf episode, but that's talking about something unique to the setting. A "Christian crewman attends mass" episode isn't much of a Star Trek story). The show follows scientific explorers, not missionaries.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence blah blah.

I think that's closer to the point. Trek dealt with a world of professionals, doing a job, where their faith was seldom the answer to anything. The job of the Enterprise crew was to explain stuff through science. The crew members may have each had their own faith, but (especially in TOS) we're watching them "on the job".

If you followed all the air-to-ground audio from a shuttle mission, you'd probably not hear much religious chatter. Many Astronauts may be religious, but if you followed the mission, you'd probably not hear the crew talking about God much to each other...they're usually busy enough, with no time for that anyway. Though several have said that they thanked God, or prayed during more private moments on missions.

Serafina wrote:

Metahive wrote:Christian wedding in Balance of Terror
Hindu Festival of Light in Data's Day
Chakotay's verious "native american" beliefs

There are quite a few mentionings of human religion in ST. It's not all stamped out, just not as prominent as it once used to be.

Those might just have been old festivals and ceremonies that have been kept, but are now mostly non-religious (not familiar with those instances, just a possibility).

As for Chakotay - he isn't even an official Federation citizen, he is a Marquis! That's hardly evidence for the Federations stance on religion!
That aside, the Federation can easily allow religion under the label of "cultural tolerance" (read: blatant racism). Since Chakotay has a native background, he'd likely get special rights. That could also explain other instances of observed religion.

Chakotay was a Lieutenant Commander in Starfleet before resigning to join the Maquis after his home planet was ceded to the Cardassians in the DMZ.

Even ignoring the fact that we mainly see a set of characters that are pretty much otherwise busy, why would religion need to be a prominent issue in UFP life? It's pretty much a nonissue in real life in some european countries now. The main effect religion has on my life these days is me having to arrange my shopping around the church holidays and the TV programming sucking during them (and that latter part seems to be fading, this year's easter programming included a Disney marathon).

Terralthra wrote:Chakotay was a Lieutenant Commander in Starfleet before resigning to join the Maquis after his home planet was ceded to the Cardassians in the DMZ.

Which brings up everyone on Dorvan V, and their religious beliefs. Picard was pretty accomodating in helping them find a new, spiritually acceptable home.

Gandalf wrote:

Terralthra wrote:Chakotay was a Lieutenant Commander in Starfleet before resigning to join the Maquis after his home planet was ceded to the Cardassians in the DMZ.

Which brings up everyone on Dorvan V, and their religious beliefs. Picard was pretty accomodating in helping them find a new, spiritually acceptable home.

Yes, but he was under orders and knew that moving them would ultimately be better than leaving them on the planet to face the Cardassians. The Cardassians would send the entire group off to re-education camps or just outright slaughter them and take over the village as a new colony center. Regardless of the Federation's views towards religion, they do have a general policy in regards to the life of its citizens. Picard made it quite clear that the colonists were better off moving than simply digging in their heels and demanding to stay. If you took the religious argument out of the equation and simply made the argument that a bunch of normal citizens didn't want to move, the Federation would probably move them.

Someone is going to chime in here in a second and say "What about the Marquis?". The Marquis became essentially terrorists who wanted their homes back. They looked at the same argument as above and decided they didn't want to just up and move, that it wasn't their style. They wanted their HOMES back. And it so happens that they were willing to roll up their sleeves and become a group of terrorists to achieve their goals. Does anyone know exactly how many worlds were ceded by the Federation to the Cardassians? I know it was at a minimum 5. Anyway, the Federation tried to a degree to move people, but not all the colonists were moved. And really, after a while, the Federation has to say, "Sorry guys, we tried to get you, but if you want to stay, that's your problem."

In TOS, there is also "Who Mourns For Adonais?"

KIRK: "Mankind has no need for gods. We find the One quite adequate."

This seems to indicate a generally accepted monotheism. Which implies, if not Christianity, then some kind of deism or the like. (I have a hard time thinking the Federation is Islamic or Judaic, even in Kirk's day! )

It does imply, as well, that the Federation (or at least its humans) share a common religion, at least to some extent.

Personally, not going by all that much statistical evidence, I think the Kirk-era Federation was about the way human society is now: secularist in government, but not actively (for the most part) anti-religious. Picard, on the other hand, moves my thoughts much closer to the traditional secular state atheism (and general evil Communism, for that matter) interpretation of the Federation that some of our posters have grown to dislike.

As I said, I have no quotes or statistics to back it up. But such is my general impression.

I'm not entirely convinced the same government runs the Federation between the first six movies and TNG. Before TNG, you had money, there's that comment by Kirk, there was less direct oversight of Starfleet operations, all of these factors. I'm sure that there were a few things that didn't involve money, like housing if you couldn't afford it and food, but you could buy things for yourself if you saved up and earned them. If you look at TNG, it seems as if all money is gone, religion by the mainstream of citizens is completely ignored, and money in almost all forms has been eradicated. Plus, Tom Paris states "Money went the way of the dinosaur," from the 22nd century on. But if Scotty bought a boat... that means his statement is wrong. Well, it'd be easier to make everyone believe you'd been without money for a long time if you simply rewrote your own history.

We have a huge gap between TOS and TNG. We have almost no canon material from that era except for a few starships like the Enterprise B and C, and both of those times, we saw them engaged in emergencies. But one thing I noticed is that Enterprise C wore the movie-era red jackets, and didn't have a counselor on board. This has me thinking that somewhere been 2343 (Year Enterprise C was destroyed) and 2363 (Year Enterprise D was built) the Federation took a major swing, going from a republic with minor communist leanings to a full-blown communist government with a few of the trappings of a republic. Starfleet began to implement greater and greater control on its ships, and even put counselors aboard to discuss someone's feelings, to deal with someone's issues before they became a problem.

That's just my theory though.

when i first saw the title i thought it was going to be about trek becoming a religion, like in Futurama. when i re-read the title i got it. i think the current view on science is that it is somehow convergent or opposite to religion, and anyone who believes in anything is a complete looney. i'm yet to see any sci-fi (that i can remember) where science IS a religion.

Science can not be a religion by definition. Science requires inquiry and critical thinking while religion requires blind belief. The two are absolutely opposed.

I have a feeling that First Contact may have something to do with it. I often wonder how organised religion might account for alien life. Christianity especially.

I mean, if you go through life believing there is a God who looks out for you and yours and that's about it, how the hell can you suddenly explain these pointy-earred hobgoblins that have just landed from the stars? How do they fit in to your faith? Especially when they have no idea of God or angels or whatnot when you talk to them further.

I can see a lot of religions shattering in the face of alien contact. It's entirely possible the ideas and beliefs continue, but I think they would be in a word-of-mouth, parents to children kind of way. Certainly not organised.

For instance, has anyone in ST ever made reference to someone like the Pope?

Eternal_Freedom wrote:I have a feeling that First Contact may have something to do with it. I often wonder how organised religion might account for alien life. Christianity especially.

I mean, if you go through life believing there is a God who looks out for you and yours and that's about it, how the hell can you suddenly explain these pointy-earred hobgoblins that have just landed from the stars? How do they fit in to your faith? Especially when they have no idea of God or angels or whatnot when you talk to them further.

I can see a lot of religions shattering in the face of alien contact. It's entirely possible the ideas and beliefs continue, but I think they would be in a word-of-mouth, parents to children kind of way. Certainly not organised.

For instance, has anyone in ST ever made reference to someone like the Pope?

Pope Sarek VII, whose predecessor was Pope Snoop Dogg II

Is that the same Snoop Dogg who is the ancestor of Snoop Dogg XXIII, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in the year 3010?

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Is that the same Snoop Dogg who is the ancestor of Snoop Dogg XXIII, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in the year 3010?

No, you're thinking of Snoop Cat XI, President of the Federation from 2506 to 2514. Popes don't have descendants, remember? Though Snoop Dogg II was made a saint after Sister 3 of 16 prayed to him for guidance on assimilating the gaseous ameboids of Jupiter.

Darth Hoth wrote:In TOS, there is also "Who Mourns For Adonais?"

KIRK: "Mankind has no need for gods. We find the One quite adequate."

This seems to indicate a generally accepted monotheism. Which implies, if not Christianity, then some kind of deism or the like. (I have a hard time thinking the Federation is Islamic or Judaic, even in Kirk's day! )

It does imply, as well, that the Federation (or at least its humans) share a common religion, at least to some extent.

Personally, not going by all that much statistical evidence, I think the Kirk-era Federation was about the way human society is now: secularist in government, but not actively (for the most part) anti-religious. Picard, on the other hand, moves my thoughts much closer to the traditional secular state atheism (and general evil Communism, for that matter) interpretation of the Federation that some of our posters have grown to dislike.

As I said, I have no quotes or statistics to back it up. But such is my general impression.

In other words, you're suggesting the Federation is an oppressive communist state based on absolutely nothing. Its just nonsense.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:I have a feeling that First Contact may have something to do with it. I often wonder how organised religion might account for alien life. Christianity especially.

I mean, if you go through life believing there is a God who looks out for you and yours and that's about it, how the hell can you suddenly explain these pointy-earred hobgoblins that have just landed from the stars? How do they fit in to your faith? Especially when they have no idea of God or angels or whatnot when you talk to them further.

I can see a lot of religions shattering in the face of alien contact. It's entirely possible the ideas and beliefs continue, but I think they would be in a word-of-mouth, parents to children kind of way. Certainly not organised.

For instance, has anyone in ST ever made reference to someone like the Pope?

Religion has survived finding people separated from the original practitioners by great distances, I see no reason why making contact with alien life would be any different. Some religions would hold Vulcans, Romulans, Klingons, etc. to be demons. Others would simply go "Hey, new people to proselytize to!" Any that had stated there was no life outside that on our own planet would either pretend they never said that or go with the demon tactic.

People don't give up a life-long belief because of just one bit of evidence, usually. The evidence of a roughly spherical Earth didn't destroy Christianity, nor did the discovery that the geocentric model is wrong. Both were ignored by the Church until it could no longer do so, at which point they just sort of hand-waved that they were wrong on the subject.