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On this page http://www.stardestroyer.net/Strategy/B ... reats.html, as one of the examples of intelligence organizations, is this:

In Star Trek, the Federation employs an organization known as Section 31, but the very existence of this organization is portrayed by the writers as a blemish on the good character of the Federation. One wonders how the writers would expect the Federation to collect vital intelligence data without an intelligence agency, and if they recognize the importance of this agency, one must wonder why it must be condemned to non-sanctioned "shadow agency" status.

However, Section 31 is not the Federation's only intelligence organization. It is an officially non-existent organization within Starfleet Intelligence.
Additionally, the aspects of Section 31 that cause disapproval are not even related to its methods of intelligence gathering, but rather on how it acts on the information and the fact that it doesn't answer to anyone.

Of course not, nobody ever said Section 31 was the totality of Federation intelligence. I can't even count the number of times someone in an episode said 'We have word from Starfleet Intelligence that..' I think at one point in DS9, we even see an ADMIRAL working in SFI. Section 31 is an autonomous 'black' program that gives the Federation and Starfleet deniability for everything they need to get done.

So did you just create a thread to tell us something we already know?

Every silver lining has a cloud.

Is Section 31 a part of SFI (like, a CIA black ops team) or are they a totally black organisation? Because while one is relatively normal, the other is amazingly stupid.

I think the best way to phrase it is Section 31 knows they're a part of starfleet intelligence, but the rest of starfleet intelligence doesn't know it. I would guess they subvert a lot of SFI missions for their own gains like we saw when Bashir was used to help fake the assassination of a romulan politician without his knowledge.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I think the best way to phrase it is Section 31 knows they're a part of starfleet intelligence, but the rest of starfleet intelligence doesn't know it. I would guess they subvert a lot of SFI missions for their own gains like we saw when Bashir was used to help fake the assassination of a romulan politician without his knowledge.

Remember that Admiral Ross was in on it too. Section 31's defining trait is that they are not in the chain of command; they have a lot of links to Starfleet at all levels.

NovaSaber wrote:However, Section 31 is not the Federation's only intelligence organization. It is an officially non-existent organization within Starfleet Intelligence.

Whee! You have discovered a minor error that may be worth the trouble of correcting.

Ted C wrote:

NovaSaber wrote:However, Section 31 is not the Federation's only intelligence organization. It is an officially non-existent organization within Starfleet Intelligence.

Whee! You have discovered a minor error that may be worth the trouble of correcting.

Sour grapes much?