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After the episode, "By Inferno's Light", we have Martok as the Klingon liaison to Deep Space Nine and the Dominion War effort, and we get to know the man, as a leader and as a character. We see him in quite a few episodes, even until the finale.

After the episode "In the Pale Moonlight", we have the Romulans join the Dominion War effort, and we see their ships in space battles. What do we get as a representative? Senator Cretak, who is in three episodes, and is taken away by the Romulan government, and one minor unnamed role several episodes later?

Why the lack of representation? Did they not want to represent the Romulans? Were they juggling too many storylines already? Did Ronald D Moore have too much of an erection for the Klingons that he didn't want to even see Romulans? Why happened?

This always bothered me too. I'd rather they focused their writing on the war effort and strategies and shit rather than 'oh lets have a holodeck episode' or 'lets have another ferengi episode' etc etc.

My best guess is they were simply juggling too many stories at once and couldn't fit in the extra plot line, with the Senator Creetak character being about the only bone we could get (which admittedly is part of why 'Inter Arma...' is my only favourite season seven episode PS that episode was written by Ron Moore).

IIRC There were Romulans appearing in most of the war room scenes late in season 7. Though they probably remained nameless.

What's really sad was them ditching T'Rul from Season 3 after her appearances in The Search.

Crazedwraith wrote:What's really sad was them ditching T'Rul from Season 3 after her appearances in The Search.

Yeah, that was a mistake. She could have a really good recurring character.

Played by the same actress as Seska as well - I wonder why they dropped her. It's not like she wasn't willing to have a semi-regular / recurring role on Trek.

Who knows- maybe her commitments to Voyager precluded appearing on DS9. Maybe the actress wasn't interested in reprising the role. Maybe the writers felt they had taken the character as far as they could go.

Hell I can't really remember much of her role in 'The Search' anyway. She says a few lines, acts like a bitch, and that's about it. Have some perspective guys.

Apparently, neither T'Rul nor the Defiant's cloaking ability were supposed to be seen again after the "The Search" two-parter. However, Ron Moore apparently didn't get the memo on this and wrote "Defiant" under the assumption that they had kept the cloaking device, and it just sorta became a permanent fixture afterwards.

I'm not sure of the production schedules of the episodes in question, but I'm pretty sure that Martha Hackett would have been given her semi-regular role of Seska over on Voyager before the DS9 team had the chance to decide whether they wanted to carry on using her character.

The Romulans and Cardasdians are too similar. Garek was already a semi-regular character and a fan favorite. Another mysterious type wasn't needed.

True.

But it's always bugged me that the Romulans, despite being the oldest antagonists, are the least defined culture. T'Rul could have been an opportunity to flesh them out more. Oh well...

I thought the Romulans were being kept away after that incident where they tried to build a hospital on one of Bajor's moons and then militarize it. Didn't something happen where Kira got between the planet and a romulan convoy?

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I thought the Romulans were being kept away after that incident where they tried to build a hospital on one of Bajor's moons and then militarize it. Didn't something happen where Kira got between the planet and a romulan convoy?

Yeah, but that was in season seven.

Wasn't that the one time we SAW a Romulan representative on DS9? She appeared on the station just for that mess, and then had another appearance on Romulus.

lord Martiya wrote:Wasn't that the one time we SAW a Romulan representative on DS9? She appeared on the station just for that mess, and then had another appearance on Romulus.

That would be Senator Cretak, the one I mentioned in the OP, and aside from buying a popscicle and being kicked out of the Senate because of Section 31, she didn't have any characterization at all.

lol She got more than kicked out of the Senate.

Cretak's character was a patriot, I liked her. I wished we'd gotten to see more of her.

I was always under the Impression we never got to see a consistent Romulan representative was because of the chronic backstabbing disorder pandemic always going on in their government.

Azron_Stoma wrote:I was always under the Impression we never got to see a consistent Romulan representative was because of the chronic backstabbing disorder pandemic always going on in their government.

That's certainly one way of looking at it.

Stofsk wrote:This always bothered me too. I'd rather they focused their writing on the war effort and strategies and shit rather than 'oh lets have a holodeck episode' or 'lets have another ferengi episode' etc etc.

My best guess is they were simply juggling too many stories at once and couldn't fit in the extra plot line, with the Senator Creetak character being about the only bone we could get (which admittedly is part of why 'Inter Arma...' is my only favourite season seven episode PS that episode was written by Ron Moore).

I suspect you're right. I'd bet they were already having trouble getting enough screen time for all of their primary and secondary characters as-is.


On a semi-related note, I was watching some DS9 episodes lately, and ran through a few out of order. I did the first few episodes of Season Six, which includes a 600-strong Federation fleet running into a 1200-strong Dominion fleet, and then hopped back a bit into the fifth season where Worf and Garak get captured. It was jarring watching everyone completely shit their pants over a Dominion fleet of fifty ships headed for the wormhole and the Romulan fleet described as something like in shambles since their disastrous attempt to attack the Founders' homeworld. I don't know why the writers felt they had to amp it up to fleets numbering in the hundreds; it's not like we ever actually saw more than a few dozen ships on screen at any one time.

Uraniun235 wrote:I don't know why the writers felt they had to amp it up to fleets numbering in the hundreds; it's not like we ever actually saw more than a few dozen ships on screen at any one time.

Presumably to one-up BoBW. The loss of thirty nine ships had been a big event, so a battle involving hundreds of ships becomes geometrically more interesting.

JME2 wrote:

Azron_Stoma wrote:I was always under the Impression we never got to see a consistent Romulan representative was because of the chronic backstabbing disorder pandemic always going on in their government.

That's certainly one way of looking at it.

Also, these representatives seemed to be Senators. Maybe they had to go home because they got voted out?

And, perhaps, to reflect a wartime level of mobilization.

Though the fight in FtB/SoA involved major concentrations of both fleets for a war-deciding operation, while in a more dispersed arrangement fifty ships is a major force.

Also keep in mind that as of mid-Season 5, ship-to-ship engagements with the Jem'Hadar had not gone well for any of Alpha Quadrant factions. Since the end of season 2, the Jem'Hadar had kicked the crap out the most powerful ships of the Federation, Cardassian, and Romulan fleets. Even the Defiant had trouble engaging the Jem'Hadar en masse.

There was the added problem that Starfleet still hadn't developed a countermeasure to the Jem'Hadar weaponry, something that wouldn't happen until the opening battle of the war (presumably thanks to the fighter Sisko and crew captured in "The Ship").

Didn't they up the numbers again for season seven's finale? Like now it was 'thousands' or 'tens of thousands' of ships in a fleet?

Stofsk wrote:Didn't they up the numbers again for season seven's finale? Like now it was 'thousands' or 'tens of thousands' of ships in a fleet?

Not sure about the actual finale, but at some point near the end of the series a reference was made to the Dominion having 30,000 ships against 1,500 Klingon ships, or something like that.

Yeah, but that was across the entire front. Not all in one battle.

It's still pretty stupid. How the fuck did the Dominion mass up that many forces without the wormhole? In SoA, didn't they say a mere thousand ships ('mere' in comparison to the 30,000 they end up with at the end of the war) would tip the balance?

It's like the writers just didn't bother trying.