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In his reviews, sfdefris always makes references to Janeway being a psychopath. I think those bits are really funny, but I don't see much from the series to support that assertion. The most evil thing I remember her doing is killing Tuvix. After I saw that episode for the first time, it left a really bad taste in my mouth. Aside from that though, I don't really remember her doing too many evil things. I remember her doing a lot of stupid things, but nothing else that is really malicious.

So, if there is anyone here who thinks she is a psychopath, could you please list off some of the bad things she has done to support this assertion?

It's basically a joke about how inconsistent her character is and how she'll constantly invoke stuff like the Prime Directive or send people on stupid away missions that get people killed because of bad writing.

blahface wrote:In his reviews, sfdefris always makes references to Janeway being a psychopath. I think those bits are really funny, but I don't see much from the series to support that assertion. The most evil thing I remember her doing is killing Tuvix. After I saw that episode for the first time, it left a really bad taste in my mouth. Aside from that though, I don't really remember her doing too many evil things. I remember her doing a lot of stupid things, but nothing else that is really malicious.

So, if there is anyone here who thinks she is a psychopath, could you please list off some of the bad things she has done to support this assertion?

How about fiddling around with the timeline and basically undoing a whole lot of people's lives just because she couldn't bear to have lost Catsuit-of-Nine*? That's not selfish and psychotic enough?





*Yeah, Tuvok became brain-damaged and Chakotay died, but Borgboob's death is rather obviously the biggest reason she does it.

I think one of the main sources of the "Janeway as a psychopath" idea came from Chuck's review of the 1st-season episode Time and Again. Sadly, the episode hasn't been uploaded to blip yet. Hopefully it'll come around soon, it's one of his better reviews.

Anyway, the short version is: Voyager comes up to a planet, the population of which has apparently been blown away by some type of mega-disaster. They investigate, and some sort of temporal hoo-hah throws Paris and Janeway a couple days into the past on the planet's surface, so they try to integrate into the local scene while they look for a way to get back.

Eventually, Paris brings up the idea of warning the people and attempting to avert whatever disaster is about to happen. Janeway tells him that's impossible, it would violate the Prime Directive and they don't know what would happen as a result of their meddling. Tom makes the obvious rebuttle - anything would have to be better than the entire planet being depopulated! But Janeway tells him, with an absolute straight face "you're not to tell these people. That's an order."

I think that was one of the major sources of the Janeway as a psychopath idea - that Janeway weighed an entire planet against breaking a rule, and found the planetary population wanting.

There was also the time when she threatened to turn the Doctor off when he protested her murdering Tuvix.

Also the happy-go-lucky way she just didn't give a shit about her Harry Kim being killed because she'd gotten a replacement.

And in "Prototype" where she said "sometimes extinction is the natural end of evolution." Chuck said it would be so very easy to put a line like that in the mouth of a villain.

Mausingly with Time and Again, Janeway instantly jumps in to save the planet when she realises it's her and her crew's fault.

I don't know whther thats her being a pyschopath or what, but it's amusing to me for some reason.

For the same reason there twenty thousand Harry Potter fanfics where Dumbledore is the evil mastermind behind every single thing that goes wrong in the world. So much about the series that doesn't make sense due to bad writing, suddenly makes perfect sense when viewed through the lens of this theory.

Janeway's problem is that she, and much of the Voyager crew don't have a personality as such. They have whatever attributes the script requires of them. So one episode Janeway is a free spirit, a rebel who breaks the rules to help others, the next she condemns entire civilizations to extinction because them's the rules. You could assign her virtually any personality traits you wanted and dig up supporting evidence from one episodes or another.

Plus, it is kind of funny.

Ahriman238 wrote:For the same reason there twenty thousand Harry Potter fanfics where Dumbledore is the evil mastermind behind every single thing that goes wrong in the world. So much about the series that doesn't make sense due to bad writing, suddenly makes perfect sense when viewed through the lens of this theory.

Case in point Chuck's comedic take on Nemesis

Janeway gave the Remans all their uber-tech to suit her own ends.The stupidity and inexplicable behavior of the TNG crew is because Janeway drugged the replicators, again to suit her own ends. And Shinzon's dumb-ass plan (which makes no logical sense, Romulans tortured me, so... "ALL HAIL THE ROMULAN EMPIRE!") exclusively serves Janeway's own ends (like how the Federation Joint Chief's were in on General Chang's attack in TUC.)

So in that light Admiral Janeway is the Emperor Palpatine of Trek, and the true villain in the shadows.

Problem with that theory is what is Janeway's ultimate goal? What does she hope to accomplish with these actions? Disruption of the Romulan Empire? Advance her political base? Destroy the Enterprise? I just don't see what the goal is. The Romulans might not have been very reliable allies, but disrupting a major empire is going to send shockwaves throughout the other worlds, mostly as a land-grab by the Klingons and other militant powers. The Federation might not grab any territory, but neither will they help. The ramifications are bad, because any group that emerges is going to be very unpredictable compared with the status quo of the current Romulan government.

In fact, reviewing the conversation between Picard and Janeway, it's just a matter of convenience that Picard is even in position to be sent. Sure, Picard could be substituted with a number of captains, but because he was investigating the strange positronic readings, he was closest to the border, an experienced ship captain, and had a very powerful starship. You don't send a frigate or destroyer to deal with a major power, you send a battleship as a display of your power and prominence.

Baffalo wrote:Problem with that theory is what is Janeway's ultimate goal? What does she hope to accomplish with these actions? Disruption of the Romulan Empire? Advance her political base? Destroy the Enterprise? I just don't see what the goal is. The Romulans might not have been very reliable allies, but disrupting a major empire is going to send shockwaves throughout the other worlds, mostly as a land-grab by the Klingons and other militant powers. The Federation might not grab any territory, but neither will they help. The ramifications are bad, because any group that emerges is going to be very unpredictable compared with the status quo of the current Romulan government.

In fact, reviewing the conversation between Picard and Janeway, it's just a matter of convenience that Picard is even in position to be sent. Sure, Picard could be substituted with a number of captains, but because he was investigating the strange positronic readings, he was closest to the border, an experienced ship captain, and had a very powerful starship. You don't send a frigate or destroyer to deal with a major power, you send a battleship as a display of your power and prominence.

In Chuck's mocking review? How about the destroying the Federation Council, President, and Admiralty, leaving her the senior surviving member of the Federation military, ready to assume control and appropriate emergency powers to combat the Romulan Menace? Or a reason for the Federation to go to war with the weakened Romulan empire and conquer it, leaving her as Empress to the great power in the Alpha Quadrant?

Need I point out just how contrived that was? The Enteprise just happens to be passing near the planet where the Soong-style android (previously discovered by the villains and reprogrammed) was planted, detected him, reassembled him. Then they just happen to be the closest ship, when the Romulans request a delegation. And they just happen to have the one person whose genetic material Shinzon needs to survive onboard. And Starfleet just happens to decide to send them instead of one of the craploads of more qualified diplomats they have at hand.

The movie could have saved itself a lot of grief by just saying they asked for Picard by name.