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This kinda irked me, having read A Girl and Her Fed and their talk of how images can be a code in and of themselves, as symbols of something. Well, I can understand a few, such as the Federation insignias:

This is just a supposition on my part, but I would say that the deep crimson red of the symbol is not blood, but the color that Klingons associate with honor or some other quality that they admire. Much like how for the Federation, the blue background of their logo is supposed to symbolize peace.

IIRC the three blades of the Klingon logo represent the three virtues of a Klingon warrior, honor, um... tradition, I think? And the largest, upright, blade is the paramount virtue of duty/loyalty.

According to the un-canon Federation the Starfleet Delta (which in the original series was the symbol of the Enteprise specifically) is a pictograph representing warp drive. The delta shape is what happens when you compare the power curve for acheiving c without warp and the power curve for the same job with warp drive (forming the upper and lower sides respectively) while the elongated star is symbolic of c.

On TOS, all Enterprise crew wore the Delta, while other ships had different badges. The star was for command, scientists wore one with two circles, and engineering had a weird sort of lazy spiral.

Now, the Dominon got a weird symbol:



As did the Ferengi Alliance:



EDIT: sorry for the big images.

On the Dominion symbol, perhaps the tallest spike represnts the Founders as Gods (to the point where it extends past the black diamond, meaning they really are big cheeses) and the smaller one represents the Vorta as sub-bosses. Both are superior to the Jem'Hadar and other member races (the lowest green part) and all three are superior to the rest of the universe (the black diamond).

Of course, That's probably reading far too much into it.

I remember hearing somewhere that the Ferengi symbol is the "little fish eat big fish" idea of their cutthroat business-dominated culture.

I remember hearing that the TNG UFP logo was originally supposed to represent Earth, Vulcan, and Klingon, because early TNG worked under the assumption that the Klingons had straight-up joined the Federation.

Why can't some of the more stylized symbols simply be letters or acronyms, blurred into an abstract symbol my decades or centuries of artistic license. I could easily see the Klingon symbol being several Klingon letters overlapping originally (like a corporate logo) and the dominion one might just be a stylized pictogram for "Dominion" or some such.

Uraniun235 wrote:I remember hearing that the TNG UFP logo was originally supposed to represent Earth, Vulcan, and Klingon, because early TNG worked under the assumption that the Klingons had straight-up joined the Federation.

I'm very glad they didn't go this route and instead made Worf a stand-alone character. It gave him a better story than simply being, "Oh yeah, Klingons and humans are friends now! Let's all laugh at the stupid Klingons who are now under our wing to keep them safe." Because Worf, in the early seasons, was about as dense as depleted Uranium.

Oh shit, sorry Uraniun, wasn't implying anything there.

I don't know about anyone else, but the Ferangi symbol looks to me like a scarab.

It looks like a robot's head to me.

KhorneFlakes wrote:It looks like a robot's head to me.

By Your Command!

That's what it reminds of, actually. BSG TOS Cylons. Except they're colored green. And want your money.

Now that I think about it, robots (or cyborgs) obsessed with the mathmatics of money-making and moving digital money all over the show, rather than the almost cliched 'Space-jew'.
Cold, calculating, ruthless. Like Gordon Gekko and Patrick Bateman in one smooth chrome package.

Pretty much any weird, stylized logos can, yes, easily be explained as combinations of letters or glyphs in an alien language.

Baffalo wrote: The Starfleet logo, from what I understand, is a mix of a delta and a chevron, both very common symbols in the military and not all that hard to envision. Starfleet wasn't originally meant to be a military organization, but I can see it.

Also note the stylistic similarity to the NASA logo (in use since 1960):



Rotate the NASA logo sixty degrees counterclockwise and you get something pretty similar to Starfleet's emblem. And NASA is a civilian agency.

Baffalo wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:I remember hearing that the TNG UFP logo was originally supposed to represent Earth, Vulcan, and Klingon, because early TNG worked under the assumption that the Klingons had straight-up joined the Federation.

I'm very glad they didn't go this route and instead made Worf a stand-alone character. It gave him a better story than simply being, "Oh yeah, Klingons and humans are friends now! Let's all laugh at the stupid Klingons who are now under our wing to keep them safe." Because Worf, in the early seasons, was about as dense as depleted Uranium.

Oh shit, sorry Uraniun, wasn't implying anything there.

Haven't you read his isotope number? Uraniun is enriched, not depleted. You should see his cousin Uraniun238, though.

If not for the Heinlein novel 'Space Cadet', (a 'defence force' composed entirely of officers, and a protagonist from Iowa and a best buddy from Texas...lots of simmilarities right there) I would have to wonder about why Starfleet isn't Airforce based (considering Airforce's power and prevelence in the early Aerospace period before NASA took over).

Then again, back in the 50s a lot of sci-fi writers did come from the navy, so I guess it was a case of 'write-what-you-know'.

I bet if they ever reboot Star Trek as with nBSG, they might even make 'Colonel Jim Kirk' with his XO, 'Lieutenant Colonel Spock' of the SpacePlane Enterprise.

At least it would explain why Officers are flying/helming/navigating instead of Enlisted.

What do you mean 'if they ever reboot' Star Trek? Where the fuck were you in 2009?

Stofsk, be nice. Remember, he hasn't said anything diabolically stupid that I'm aware of that deserves a verbal raping.

As far as Star Trek's Air Force ties are concerned, I know that quite a bit of money is being sent the Air Force's way to promote space-warfare. I think it was Ian Douglas (*shudder*) that wrote that the Air Force initially got the funding, but the Navy somehow got to take over the space forces since being aboard tiny, cramped ships somehow was better suited towards naval personnel. How he made that leap of logic, I'll never know. Regardless, it seems that the Air Force and the Navy are two branches which seem to have the most... I guess the word would be clout when it comes to space. The Air Force because flying around is what they do, the Navy because they're... well, ships.

Now, I will point out that in a sense, most naval ships these days are starting to become like space ships in that they can literally seal themselves up to protect against radiation, chemical attack, you name it. They can operate almost entirely like this, with the carriers being able to launch and recover planes when guys are in haz-mat suits. It'd be difficult and dangerous, but they could do the job. I imagine one day it'll probably be a mix of the two, part navy part air force.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Something else that seems rather strange is that the Cardassians use the following symbol:


I'm pretty sure they're not fish. Now, given that their warships do indeed resemble the same design, it makes a bit of sense, and if you consider what the shape gives you, it's a fairly simple but effective design. Consider: You have a large, broad front that can house numerous weapons, making it possible for the ship to have numerous shields and weapons up front for the most effect. Federation ships have the large saucer, and it delivers similar effects. The majority of the crew areas are behind the head, keeping them safe from attack, meaning you can put most of your armor forward. By putting maneuvering engines in the 'fins', the ship can turn easier and it lets most of the power be put in the very tail, where it can push the ship forward very quickly.

And lastly, I know this symbol only appeared a few times in TNG, but it's become the de facto symbol of the Borg:


It's clearly a hand, but why would a group hell-bent on perfection in all things, so much so that they reduced their ships to simple geometric designs, go out of their way to use such a symbol? Does the hand symbolize working together to form perfection? Are they reaching out to the other civilizations to bring them to perfection and enlightenment? The hand can mean so many things, so I'm wondering why they chose to use it in such a manner?

isn't that how they assimilate people? cable comes out of the palm?

been a long time since i watched

The tubules come out from behind the knuckles, if IIRC.

Maybe it was their symbol before they filled themselves with cybernetics and became the Borg we now know, and kept using that because they didn't care enough to invent another one (or lacked the creativity to make a new one).

You'd think the Borg wouldn't even bother with a symbol.
Symbols are the nature of chaotic, scattered lifeforms crying out their association and territory like shrieking apes.

The Borg, are unified..what need do they have of 'Symbols', of 'The Colours' to be flown like flags of yore?

They show up, announce their intent to welcome you into their fold....whether you want to or not.

I mean for a culture that uses such bland (but effective ) shapes for their ships rather than the more styalistic designs of other races...why have a flag?

But I like lord Martiya's idea that they just haven't bothered to change it. Too much important assimilating to do.

Stofsk, be nice. Remember, he hasn't said anything diabolically stupid that I'm aware of that deserves a verbal raping.

far be it from me to engage in verbal rape; edawNUMBERS is safe

for now

Anyway, IIRC the only time we ever actually see the borg symbol was in Descent, and those borg were the 'individuals' that Hugh affected.

That could easily be a symbol they adopted with their newfound awareness.

I'm really pissed off that nothing came of that and instead FC and Voyager subsequently retconned the borg.

The Borg seem to suffer from over-exposure by inconsistent sources, much like the Klingons and Ferengi before them. Here was this enemy, this power that could do irreparable damage if allowed to, suddenly thrown at us so many times and defeated so many times that they are nothing but a shell of their former selves. It's the same as Worf being a supposed badass, then getting his ass handed to him by every alien of the week. It's clunky and it's meant to show that the aliens themselves are badasses, but it does nothing but eventually make Worf look like a complete tool and that he's useless for anything but growling and swinging something pointy at the bad guys.

The Romulans, for the most part, avoided this fate by only making the occasional appearance, sometimes working against the Federation, sometimes with. The point was every time we saw them, we questioned their motives. Romulans aren't portrayed very often as simply being a stereotype like the Klingons or Ferengi. They have their own agenda and like any major power, are going to do whatever they feel necessary to ensure their own survival. If that means a war here, a bargain there, a treaty to set official borders, withdrawing into their own borders and shutting everyone out, that's their business. The only time we see them working outside their borders is when they are trying to advance their own position. Unfortunately, that left them untapped as a potential enemy and both Nemesis and Star Trek (2009) exploited this. They did a fairly impressive job in Star Trek, but in Nemesis, I refuse to ever watch it again.

Stofsk wrote:
Anyway, IIRC the only time we ever actually see the borg symbol was in Descent, and those borg were the 'individuals' that Hugh affected.

It actually appeared as far back as "Q Who" but it was subtle as hell (you blink you may miss it): http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... who228.jpg

Baffalo wrote:The Romulans, for the most part, avoided this fate by only making the occasional appearance, sometimes working against the Federation, sometimes with. The point was every time we saw them, we questioned their motives. Romulans aren't portrayed very often as simply being a stereotype like the Klingons or Ferengi. They have their own agenda and like any major power, are going to do whatever they feel necessary to ensure their own survival. If that means a war here, a bargain there, a treaty to set official borders, withdrawing into their own borders and shutting everyone out, that's their business. The only time we see them working outside their borders is when they are trying to advance their own position. Unfortunately, that left them untapped as a potential enemy and both Nemesis and Star Trek (2009) exploited this. They did a fairly impressive job in Star Trek, but in Nemesis, I refuse to ever watch it again.

I've always thought it's unfortunate that the Romulans are the franchise's first major villians, that they predate the Klingons by about ten episodes -- and yet they've always gotten the short end of the stick. True, as you pointed out, their shadowy nature has been an advantage in making the audience question them. But still, they're the least defined of the franchise's major cultures and antagonists.

This is one of the reasons why I love Diane Duane's Rihannsu novels so much, that they made the Romulans (or TOS-era Romulans, anyway) such a fascinating, complex culture.