StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I noticed something rather bizarre while watching through several episodes of Chuck's Opinionated Guide... that there's a curse that afflicts the captains of the USS Enterprise. Specifically, decimation to the family line.

For evidence, I point to *shudder* Archer, who had no family that we ever knew of. Kirk, whose brother was killed and his sister in law and nephew nearly killed along with the loss of David in Search for Spock. We never knew what became of the Captains of Enterprises B and C, though given that the Enterprise C was destroyed, it might be the same. Picard never had children (that I'm aware of in canon) and his family was killed in a fire as stated in Generations. And while the comics that came out before Star Trek (2009) aren't supposed to be official canon, Data, who commands the Enterprise E during that time, lost his daughter Lal (though this was before he commanded the Enterprise so I'm not sure it technically counts).

Now, sure, there are a lot of holes that can't be answered, and the EU might have answers to these questions. But from a strict canon sense, the Enterprise has a long streak of captains who have lost most if not all of their families while in service aboard the Enterprise.

I think you'll find this is more accurately 'main character in long-running show curse'. Not only is it not specific to the Enterprise, it isn't even specific to science fiction. Turns out that when you have a small cast and need to grab understandable motivations, people start losing family members.

Here's a fun experiment: Organise a role playing group, and have people write their character's backstories. The vast majority will have "loss of parent" as a story point. It got to the point where it had to be banned.

Loss of a parent (or close family member) is just really easy to write, and easy for an audience to grasp.

NX-01:Never existed (Jedi handwave). E-Nil: Brother killed long before Kirk ever became Captain, son killed after he was (Kirk was in command for that mission only because Spock insisted). E-B and E-C: no information on whether they had any family to begin with. E-D: Picard lost his nephew.E-E: Data again lost his daughter long before he became Captain. I'd call that pretty shaky evidence for being Captain of the Big E being a curse.

Gandalf wrote:Here's a fun experiment: Organise a role playing group, and have people write their character's backstories. The vast majority will have "loss of parent" as a story point. It got to the point where it had to be banned.

I think that orphans would be less common in RPGs if less GMs saw family primarily as a weakness to be exploited.

Grumman wrote:I think that orphans would be less common in RPGs if less GMs saw family primarily as a weakness to be exploited.

I think you and I play in different metas. I've only ever had to provide backstory as fluff, so we have a more rounded idea of our characters.

Batman wrote:E-Nil: Brother killed long before Kirk ever became Captain

Kirk's brother (and sister-in-law) died in the first season of TOS, in "Operation Annihilate." Kirk had been in command of the ship for a year or two by that point.

Batman wrote:NX-01:Never existed (Jedi handwave).

NX-01: Never existed.

Gandalf wrote:Here's a fun experiment: Organise a role playing group, and have people write their character's backstories. The vast majority will have "loss of parent" as a story point. It got to the point where it had to be banned.

Loss of a parent (or close family member) is just really easy to write, and easy for an audience to grasp.

I didn't notice this mostly because the RPG group I run with doesn't do this very often, hence why I didn't really notice it. It's a horrible cliche, but now that you mention it, yeah I can see how it's a way of hurting the main character(s), though there are plenty of ways to do the same without falling back on cliche.

DaveJB wrote:

Batman wrote:E-Nil: Brother killed long before Kirk ever became Captain

Kirk's brother (and sister-in-law) died in the first season of TOS, in "Operation Annihilate." Kirk had been in command of the ship for a year or two by that point.

Hrm. I thought that happened years before Kirk ever got the Big E but it appears you are correct. My bad. Point conceded.

Batman wrote:NX-01:Never existed (Jedi handwave). E-Nil: Brother killed long before Kirk ever became Captain, son killed after he was (Kirk was in command for that mission only because Spock insisted). E-B and E-C: no information on whether they had any family to begin with. E-D: Picard lost his nephew.E-E: Data again lost his daughter long before he became Captain. I'd call that pretty shaky evidence for being Captain of the Big E being a curse.

David was killed after Kirk stole the Enterprise to rescue Spocks body. Not sure if he can be counted as "in command" of a stolen ship no longer in service on a mission he was forbidden to do.

Geezuz FattyNerdsTM
The point is "Captain of Enterprise=Dead family". You don't have to nitpick when the precise fucking stardates.

Anyway, it doesn't hold up. It's really just Kirk, and even then it is just his brother and son. Numbers wise, that is hardly "most if not all". Actually shit, only Picard's brother and nephew died so again, hardly "most if not all"

Also, 80 years apart with 3-4+ Captains between them is hardly a "streak".

And just as a side, I honestly would be surprised if, when the writers of TSFS decided to kill David, they even remembered the previous death of Kirk's brother from the fucking early 60's.

And if you go the new trek he never had a brother but Dad still died. He might have a half brother. Wonder if his mom was still alive when pike convinced him to go to Starfleet

Havok wrote:
And just as a side, I honestly would be surprised if, when the writers of TSFS decided to kill David, they even remembered the previous death of Kirk's brother from the fucking early 60's.

I would not put it past Harve Bennett (writer of TSFS, who claimed he watched all of TOS when developing TWOK, to figure out which episode would best serve as one to follow up on). I mean, the film recycled the self-destruct codes word for word, from "Let that Be Your Last Battlefield."

As far as new-Trek. Kirk's brother is a question mark. For one, he's supposed to be older than Jim Kirk. Second, he was supposed to be in the film but a scene got cut, and he got re-named.

Skylon wrote:As far as new-Trek. Kirk's brother is a question mark. For one, he's supposed to be older than Jim Kirk. Second, he was supposed to be in the film but a scene got cut, and he got re-named.

IIRC, the scene was actually shot between Kirk and his brother in front of a miniature grain silo for background. The reason it was cut was because they didn't want Kirk's step father, the guy pitching a fit because Kirk stole the car, to be seen in that light. So instead, it was meant to sound like his uncle or something bitching him out instead of his step-dad, and that the older boy was his cousin or something.

Given that the new Trek was meant to draw people in who didn't know Trek, they're not going to know that Kirk had a brother and that he died due to flying vomit stabbing him in the back like the cowardly puke that it is.