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So I caught a months old thread debating the implications of the planet-to-planet teleporter featured in the new Star Trek continuity.

Not wanting to necro the thread (and, for some reason, being unable to find it again) I've decided to start this one to point something out that has been bugging me about it.

Now, the problem, as humorously outlined in this How It Should Have Ended episode is that the implications of TransWarp teleportation renders starfleet obsolete.

What has been bothering me is the realization that the movies actually do indicate (ever so vaguely) that this technology does not in fact change anything.

Thing is... It is Old Spock, from the original timeline, who provides New Scotty with the formula for the teleportation, but he states that the formula was discovered by Old Scotty in the old continuity.

To me, this means that the capability for TransWarp teleportation was available to the original timeline prior to the events that led to the destruction of Romulus.

It is not stated if the discovery was made before or after Old Scotty was "frozen", and I don't know if there is a definite date for Scotty's death in the original continuity that would mark a point where the discovery should've been made, so I'll stick to the destruction of Romulus as the point in the timeline where it is certain that Scotty had made his discovery.

What I am getting at is that, at the time of the destruction of Romulus, Spock had the knowledge to enable any old transporter to do TransWarp transportation, but the technology wasn't being widely used to, for example, evacuate Romulus, or to the very least get Spock there in time. This is further compounded if Star Trek Online is considered canon, since the technology seems to have no impact on said universe either.
It could be excused on the project being top secret, but given the massive advantage such a technology would provide, I find it unlikely.


Now, the out of universe explanation is simple: They came up with the tech for the movie and did not consider the implications.

The in-universe explanation, though, points (in my opinion) at there maybe being some drawbacks to the technology that have not been properly explored in the movies. Maybe these drawbacks could be extrapolated from New Scotty making Porthos vanish for an indeterminate amount of time while experimenting with the formula, maybe there are practical limitations we have not been made aware of (it is possible that Khan had to fly to Khronos to plant a "recevier" device there, or that the device is prohibitively expensive).


It is all speculation, of course, and given how it is being made fun of, I'm guessing they will explain it on the next Star Trek movie, but I at least think that there is some evidence for the tech not being as world-changing as it is made out to be.

Edit: typos

It's here
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=158692

And I already posted the same thing on it already.

Also it was 2nd from the top, it's not really a necro, even if someone hasn't posted in it for a couple of months.

Fuck me, how did I miss that it had been discussed already? Guess I skimmed over the posts and focused on the ones discussing the technicalities of the technology.

As for necro'ing, the rules state a couple months old thread is considered dead, thus I preferred to play it safe even if someone had already necro'ed it.


I'll go hang my head in shame now.

I'm not sure the device they used in ST09 can be considered "any old transporter." Scotty had been there for six months with sod all else to do except tinker with it to try and prove his theory.

Didn't they then use it to transport from the JJprise to Nero's ship? Or was that just a regular transport?

I don't think it was ever stated to be transwarp. But it may have been. But if it did use the transwarp beaming thing, no doubt having Scotty on hand helped considerably.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:I'm not sure the device they used in ST09 can be considered "any old transporter." Scotty had been there for six months with sod all else to do except tinker with it to try and prove his theory.

Fair point.

Crazedwraith wrote:Didn't they then use it to transport from the JJprise to Nero's ship? Or was that just a regular transport?

The Enterprise had just dropped out of warp near Saturn, so it could be either. It'd definitely be out of range for a prime universe transporter (which are limited to 40,000KM, if memory serves), but given the other technological advances that sort of distance might be possible for a plain old Abramsverse transporter.

It's possible that Scotty's transwarp beaming got tossed in the Starfleet "Things We Can Do But Will Never Actually Do No Matter How Much Sense It Would Make" file along with the timewarp slingshot maneuver. DaiMon Bok had a subspace transporter with similar capabilities, and Geordi whipped up an imitation in a few hours; it was explained that Starfleet doesn't use them because they are much more unreliable (and since this is the transporter we're talking about, that's really saying something!). The Dominion's transporters also have multi-lightyear range.

I put in the "has some unknown flaw that makes widespread use too costly" category, I mean if we take STO as canon by 2409 Alpha Quadrant powers have perfect their own versions on Transwarp and Slipstream drives but don't use them often. The thing we must remember is that we saw transwarp beaming used a total of 2 times in the movies, possibly 3, that's not enough to tell if there's limits to it's use that make regular transporters more useful.

The thing we must remember is that we saw transwarp beaming used a total of 2 times in the movies, possibly 3, that's not enough to tell if there's limits to it's use that make regular transporters more useful.

Don't remember if this was mentioned already in the thread, but could it be an issue with side effects? Could transwarp beaming be more dangerous to subjects than normal transporters? I'm thinking along the lines of how you can only have so many chest x-rays before you begin to suffer radiation poisoning...

Borgholio wrote:

The thing we must remember is that we saw transwarp beaming used a total of 2 times in the movies, possibly 3, that's not enough to tell if there's limits to it's use that make regular transporters more useful.

Don't remember if this was mentioned already in the thread, but could it be an issue with side effects? Could transwarp beaming be more dangerous to subjects than normal transporters? I'm thinking along the lines of how you can only have so many chest x-rays before you begin to suffer radiation poisoning...

it could but there's simply not enough data to work on.

DaveJB wrote:

Crazedwraith wrote:Didn't they then use it to transport from the JJprise to Nero's ship? Or was that just a regular transport?

The Enterprise had just dropped out of warp near Saturn, so it could be either. It'd definitely be out of range for a prime universe transporter (which are limited to 40,000KM, if memory serves), but given the other technological advances that sort of distance might be possible for a plain old Abramsverse transporter.

I've always assumed that the transport to the Narada from Titan involved the transwarp beaming. When Kirk and Spock transport to the Narada, they do not turn up in the exact location on the ship where they assumed they were going, much like how Scotty ended up in the water tank when beaming to Enterprise. This imprecision seems to be a hallmark of the transwarp beaming as depicted in the 2009 film.

Arawn Fenn wrote:

DaveJB wrote:

Crazedwraith wrote:Didn't they then use it to transport from the JJprise to Nero's ship? Or was that just a regular transport?

The Enterprise had just dropped out of warp near Saturn, so it could be either. It'd definitely be out of range for a prime universe transporter (which are limited to 40,000KM, if memory serves), but given the other technological advances that sort of distance might be possible for a plain old Abramsverse transporter.

I've always assumed that the transport to the Narada from Titan involved the transwarp beaming. When Kirk and Spock transport to the Narada, they do not turn up in the exact location on the ship where they assumed they were going, much like how Scotty ended up in the water tank when beaming to Enterprise. This imprecision seems to be a hallmark of the transwarp beaming as depicted in the 2009 film.

Actually, AFAIK, they ended up exactly where Scotty wanted them to appear - it was just that he thought the cargo hold would be uninhabited, whereas the Narada's crew had basically taken to controlling the ship from its cargo hold...

biostem wrote: Actually, AFAIK, they ended up exactly where Scotty wanted them to appear - it was just that he thought the cargo hold would be uninhabited, whereas the Narada's crew had basically taken to controlling the ship from its cargo hold...

Yup, Scotty says "if there's any sense in the layout of their ship, you should arrive int he cargo bay with nary a soul in sight."

Eternal_Freedom wrote:

biostem wrote: Actually, AFAIK, they ended up exactly where Scotty wanted them to appear - it was just that he thought the cargo hold would be uninhabited, whereas the Narada's crew had basically taken to controlling the ship from its cargo hold...

Yup, Scotty says "if there's any sense in the layout of their ship, you should arrive int he cargo bay with nary a soul in sight."

considering that the Narada is supposed to be a Borg/Romulan Hybrid ship like the adapted Tal Shiar ships in STO, only done with fewer resources, so it wouldn't surprise me if that was a cargo bay but as also the original bridge or what's left of it after the borg tech twisted what was fairly normal looking Romulan ship into something out of your worst nightmares.

I always just figured he made an educated guess that turned out to be wrong and they landed in Main Engineering or something instead.

Borgholio wrote:

The thing we must remember is that we saw transwarp beaming used a total of 2 times in the movies, possibly 3, that's not enough to tell if there's limits to it's use that make regular transporters more useful.

Don't remember if this was mentioned already in the thread, but could it be an issue with side effects? Could transwarp beaming be more dangerous to subjects than normal transporters? I'm thinking along the lines of how you can only have so many chest x-rays before you begin to suffer radiation poisoning...

That would make it similar to the Rutian dimensional inverter seen in TNG "The High Ground", which allowed users to teleport themselves through subspace. Using the system caused cumulative cellular damage. Subspace transport might have similar effects, and the formula we see in nuTrek might just be a variant of the subspace transport from "Bloodlines".

FYI, this is what Memory Alpha says the Narada looked like before all the modifications: