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In TNG, it's routinely stated that the Enterprise is the flagship of the Federation, and for the most part, Picard leads an excellent seven to eight years as captain of that ship and is a good choice. But, before that, he was captain of the Stargazer, which he lost to enemy hands and was court martialed for. Though he was absolved of all charges, would someone who has been through a ringer like a court martial really be given the flagship? Sure, I can see him being given an Excelsior or maybe an Ambassador, but the flagship?

Or was his actions in losing the Stargazer, the famous Picard Maneuver, what got him the command?

Being Court Martialed for the loss of the ship is pretty routine, at least in some navies/eras. (Napoleonic Royal Navy for Example Which is the time of Hornblower, which ST is reputedly based upon)

It's not actually a strike against you that it happened if you were honourably acquitted.

He was apparently well regarded before the loss of the stargazer and because he handled the situation admirably it might even have reinforced in the federation the idea of him being able to handle long-range missions.

With regards to the court martial, pretty much what Crazedwraith wrote.

I should point out that a court martial is not a punishment. It is pretty much a military version of a court of inquiry. They want to find out what happened. They may grill the hell out of you and your crew, but they are just trying to make sure you didn't do anything stupid and that you did the best you could. So yeah he lost his ship and got court-martial. They determined he was not at fault for what happened, that he did the best any captain could reasonably be expected to do, and let him go with no mark against him.

I dislike how in military dramas they use a court martial as some kind of threat, especially when it's directed against an officer who is trying to obey the law and do the right thing. It would be like, "Ok, sir, you're breaking the law / committing a war crime and you want to threaten ME with court martial because I oppose you? Go for it. You'll go down harder for what you're trying to do and I'll walk away clean."

Borgholio wrote:I dislike how in military dramas they use a court martial as some kind of threat, especially when it's directed against an officer who is trying to obey the law and do the right thing. It would be like, "Ok, sir, you're breaking the law / committing a war crime and you want to threaten ME with court martial because I oppose you? Go for it. You'll go down harder for what you're trying to do and I'll walk away clean."

I always figured those threats meant that the court would be rigged by the one making them. As in, "do what you are told and don't make a noise about this or I'll make you the scapegoat for it via my kangaroo court".

Yeah but again, drama. The makeup of the judging panel is subject to congressional oversight, can be challenged by the defense, and can even have 1/3 of the officers replaced with enlisted ratings if the accused is also enlisted.

IMO, Picard was chosen because he seems like more of a diplomat than many other captains we see.

IMO Starfleet HQ didn't want to have to deal with Picard's lectures any moment longer so they send him on a mission that was as far away from Earth as possible. But seeing the potential public backlash if they gave him a crappy ship they settled on giving him the E-D:

Admiral: "I agree wholeheartedly that we need to do a better job spreading the Starfleet gospel, and I can think of no better candidate than you. Here, I'll even give you a fancy new ship that you can show off to the natives. Please, please go, in fact I insist!"

Tribble wrote:IMO Starfleet HQ didn't want to have to deal with Picard's lectures any moment longer so they send him on a mission that was as far away from Earth as possible. But seeing the potential public backlash if they gave him a crappy ship they settled on giving him the E-D:

Admiral: "I agree wholeheartedly that we need to do a better job spreading the Starfleet gospel, and I can think of no better candidate than you. Here, I'll even give you a fancy new ship that you can show off to the natives. Please, please go, in fact I insist!"

And they snickered all the while, know that it'd be full of non-starfleet adults and children, which he despises so.

Heck, he didn't even meet Riker until Farpoint Station, which seemed odd - he wasn't even given his ship until *after* it was deployed to some foreign sector.

I wonder who was in command at the ship's unveiling.

biostem wrote:

Tribble wrote:IMO Starfleet HQ didn't want to have to deal with Picard's lectures any moment longer so they send him on a mission that was as far away from Earth as possible. But seeing the potential public backlash if they gave him a crappy ship they settled on giving him the E-D:

Admiral: "I agree wholeheartedly that we need to do a better job spreading the Starfleet gospel, and I can think of no better candidate than you. Here, I'll even give you a fancy new ship that you can show off to the natives. Please, please go, in fact I insist!"

And they snickered all the while, know that it'd be full of non-starfleet adults and children, which he despises so.

Heck, he didn't even meet Riker until Farpoint Station, which seemed odd - he wasn't even given his ship until *after* it was deployed to some foreign sector.

I wonder who was in command at the ship's unveiling.

lmao- yes, I forgot about his mortal nemesis.

Hell, this could explain why Picard was so grouchy at first, he must have realised pretty quickly that the joke was on him:

Picard: "Wait a minute.... no one important around to lecture and constantly being surrounded by children??? DAMNIT!!!!"

Maybe the entire series was one big Q joke.

Tribble wrote:

biostem wrote:

Tribble wrote:IMO Starfleet HQ didn't want to have to deal with Picard's lectures any moment longer so they send him on a mission that was as far away from Earth as possible. But seeing the potential public backlash if they gave him a crappy ship they settled on giving him the E-D:

Admiral: "I agree wholeheartedly that we need to do a better job spreading the Starfleet gospel, and I can think of no better candidate than you. Here, I'll even give you a fancy new ship that you can show off to the natives. Please, please go, in fact I insist!"

And they snickered all the while, know that it'd be full of non-starfleet adults and children, which he despises so.

Heck, he didn't even meet Riker until Farpoint Station, which seemed odd - he wasn't even given his ship until *after* it was deployed to some foreign sector.

I wonder who was in command at the ship's unveiling.

lmao- yes, I forgot about his mortal nemesis.

Hell, this could explain why Picard was so grouchy at first, he must have realised pretty quickly that the joke was on him:

Picard: "Wait a minute.... no one important around to lecture and constantly being surrounded by children??? DAMNIT!!!!"

I can picture it now, Q posing as Picard during the ship's unveiling and commencement, with a big grin on his face, while he made sure to keep the real Picard occupied elsewhere... "What do you mean you never met Riker? You shook his hand at the unveiling ceremony!"

On a serious note, I'm willing to bet that it had something to do with alien conspiracy that was going on. Picard may have been given the E-D and been sent on an exploration mission to get him out of the way. It makes you wonder why the aliens didn't just infest Picard, but perhaps due to still being in the early stages of their takeover they didn't want to risk it.

Tribble wrote:On a serious note, I'm willing to bet that it had something to do with alien conspiracy that was going on. Picard may have been given the E-D and been sent on an exploration mission to get him out of the way. It makes you wonder why the aliens didn't just infest Picard, but perhaps due to still being in the early stages of their takeover they didn't want to risk it.

What about the possibility of a faction within the Federation intentionally putting all those civilians in harms way, hoping that the Enterprise would be destroyed or suffer heavy losses, so as to give them a reason to step up their militarization.

Isn't one of the WMG on TVTropes about TNG that Picard is realy an ensign and all the series is realy a holodrama that he playing on his off time

Well, we do know that Enterprise was just a holodeck fantasy of Riker's, so the idea is not that far-fetched...

biostem wrote:I can picture it now, Q posing as Picard during the ship's unveiling and commencement, with a big grin on his face, while he made sure to keep the real Picard occupied elsewhere... "What do you mean you never met Riker? You shook his hand at the unveiling ceremony!"

Actually, he didn't. Picard did not meet Riker until Farpoint Station.

Keep in mind, chronologically, the Stargazer took place nine years before TNG. He commanded the Stargazer for over twenty years (maybe we can assume with some desk assignments in between while the ship if the ship was ever under refit), and while the ship was not top-of-the-line, it seems Picard had to command it through a variety of situations in that time, that probably gave him a wide-range of experience.

What he did between the loss of the Stargazer and TNG is another matter - there really isn't a lot to go on - the Stargazer is really the only prior ship he talks about. His statement of how he recruited Tasha Yar to the Enterprise, implies he was in command of another starship before the Enterprise - maybe an Ambassador-Class or Excelsior-Class.

For what its worth, the Galaxy-Class Captain's - Picard, Varley and Keogh all seem to imply the same mold - very experienced, senior Captain's who have probably commanded ships thru a wide variety of assignments...and with a bit of 24th Century Federation arrogance.

Well between Kirk and Picard you had Frasier and Cameron. Picard seems like as good a choice as any.

Seriously speaking, IIRC we know of only 2 major black marks on Picard's file, The Stargazer and the bar fight that cost him his original heart and in case of the Stargazer is was deemed that Picard did the best he could given the situation, so there was no reason for Starfleet to blacklist Picard for the loss of the Stargazer and he was decent diplomat and had shown good tactical thinking.

Skylon wrote:
For what its worth, the Galaxy-Class Captain's - Picard, Varley and Keogh all seem to imply the same mold - very experienced, senior Captain's who have probably commanded ships thru a wide variety of assignments...and with a bit of 24th Century Federation arrogance.

Which makes a lot of sense. Compare it to modern navies; the biggest and most important ships go tot he most senior and most respected captains (big carriers, SSBNs and so on) not freshly-minted CO's. They get sent to the Mirandas and other small ships to prove their command ability in a place where it won't be as serious a problem if they fuck up than if they were on a Galaxy.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:

Skylon wrote:
For what its worth, the Galaxy-Class Captain's - Picard, Varley and Keogh all seem to imply the same mold - very experienced, senior Captain's who have probably commanded ships thru a wide variety of assignments...and with a bit of 24th Century Federation arrogance.

Which makes a lot of sense. Compare it to modern navies; the biggest and most important ships go tot he most senior and most respected captains (big carriers, SSBNs and so on) not freshly-minted CO's. They get sent to the Mirandas and other small ships to prove their command ability in a place where it won't be as serious a problem if they fuck up than if they were on a Galaxy.

And as the "Federation Flagship" the Enterprise is in essence embodiment of the United Federation of Planets and it's values, so you want a captain that can do this without pissing of your allies or potential allies and the more experienced the captain is more likely it is that he can do that.

Since Picard apparently held Captain's rank for 29 years before he was given the E-D, I'd say it's hardly surprising.

I'm not an expert on Navy matters, but I'm under the impression that in the Navy the most capable leaders are generally not given an obsolete ship with backwater tasks for nearly 29 years before being considered for transfer or promotion. And if I remember correctly, the only reason Picard got the job was because the original captain was killed. Had the Stargazer not been destroyed there's no evidence to suggest that things would have changed.

Now we know that Picard is talented (by Starfleet's standards) and he seems to be very well respected by most of his peers and higher ups (except for Nechayev), so I doubt his stagnant career up until this point was due to blacklisting or out of spite. Perhaps it was because the Stargazer was always running around doing unimportant errands or was out on the frontier, so he was never really spoken about much back in HQ.

IMO the loss of the Stargazer was the tipping point of his career. Sure he was upset about losing his favourite ship, but that's what really put his name front and center in Starfleet's mind. The fact that he managed a draw against a superior opponent while inventing a new (and for a while unbeatable) tactic was probably what impressed Starfleet enough to eventually give him the Enterprise. And I'm sure that having a desk job for a couple of years where he'd get to intermingle with his bosses wouldn't have hurt.

Actually, the fact that he commanded the Stargazer for so long without major incident was probably a good mark on his record. It proved he could handle anything thrown at him despite having an old ship. The final battle against the Ferengi just cemented that.

Then again, in the politically correct Federation they may not necessarily have wanted a brilliant officer, but one who had toed the line and never done anything wrong.