StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I didn't see this on a quick look, so I figured that I'd post it:

This was a visual effects concept test to show the producers of Voyager what a launch sequence of the (as of yet) unused "Aeroshuttle" might look like. This special craft was capable of warp speeds and able to fly in a planetary atmosphere. Ultimately, the decision was made to leave the Aeroshuttle alone and introduce the Delta Flyer (this was shortly before the movie "Insurrection," which featured a launch sequence of the Captain's Yacht - the producers didn't want Voyager to "steal the thunder" of such a scene from the upcoming movie). The test was created by Voyager CGI Supervisors Rob Bonchune and Adam "Mojo" Lebowitz, under the supervision of VFX Producer Dan Curry.

While it looks cool, I'm glad they didn't use it. It brings up the question of why Voyager never used it in previous seasons, and makes the crew seem like idiots for never using it. Also, the Delta Flyer looks cooler and shows the crew of Voyager thinking outside the box in regards to surviving their situation.

I love how the controls basically have the guy pressing a whole bunch of buttons at once. And they are far away from one another. So basically I guess that if your pilot has small hands you are screwed.

Well, that's just stock footage that they cut in from some other scene, as was the scene on the bridge of Janeway walking to Paris.

FaxModem1 wrote:Well, that's just stock footage that they cut in from some other scene, as was the scene on the bridge of Janeway walking to Paris.

That actually makes it worse because it implies a serious flaw in the design of a console that is a tad more important than a strange shuttle craft.

This is TNG+ Trek. They routinely have to push a zillion buttons for the simplest maneuvers...on ships with a computer that will happily accept voice commands.

Purple wrote:

FaxModem1 wrote:Well, that's just stock footage that they cut in from some other scene, as was the scene on the bridge of Janeway walking to Paris.

That actually makes it worse because it implies a serious flaw in the design of a console that is a tad more important than a strange shuttle craft.

That really depends on what is being operated. My laptop has dozens of keys on its keyboard. I don't use all of them depending on the situation, and as we have no idea what's actually being done in the clip, it could be something as simple as searching for a file or typing in a password, scrolling through files, whatever.

FaxModem1 wrote:

Purple wrote:

FaxModem1 wrote:Well, that's just stock footage that they cut in from some other scene, as was the scene on the bridge of Janeway walking to Paris.

That actually makes it worse because it implies a serious flaw in the design of a console that is a tad more important than a strange shuttle craft.

That really depends on what is being operated. My laptop has dozens of keys on its keyboard. I don't use all of them depending on the situation, and as we have no idea what's actually being done in the clip, it could be something as simple as searching for a file or typing in a password, scrolling through files, whatever.

Or, you know, they could just go with something suited for XYZ-axis maneuvering... a joystick or pilot's yoke. Add two buttons for yawing (rudder action), a throttle slider, and you're good.

On a big ship I understand using a keyboard to control the action as (if you go by movie-physics anyway) they're slower and more ponderous, but with a smaller craft you should use something suited to maneuvering rapidly, especially within atmosphere.

Even the Space Shuttle has joysticks:

When Paris added a joystick to the Delta Flyer, the other crewmembers mocked him for it. That just goes to show why he was considered such a great pilot...he actually knew which controls were most efficient for controlling a flying machine.

Looks like Kira and Bashir in the cockpit there to me. Makes sense the aeroshuttle design basically steals the runabout fuselage and sticks wings on it.

Though it does come to me that I've read that the majority of Shuttle flights are actually autopiloted almost entirely (strictly IIRC). The joystick is a backup; the crew mostly sits there and watches everything to make sure it goes fine. I think there's been at least one pilot-controlled Shuttle landing just to make sure they could do it, but apart from that they mostly let the computer do it.

On Voyager? Everybody's pounding a tablet screen.

I wonder how long it is before someone makes an iOS game where you try to pilot a starship with a LCARS equivalent...

They made a big deal in the Pilot for TNG about how Riker needed to prove himself to Picard by doing a "manual" docking of the Stardrive and Saucer sections. Turns out it just meant typing in commands into the autopilot instead of telling the computer to dock the ship. True manual docking should have taken better part of an hour for something that big.

Makes one wonder just how much work the computers are doing behind the scenes and how much actual human input anybody has in ST. Who knows, maybe all the crew are doing with the LCARS is just moving dots around and the computer's doing everything for them without them really realizing it.

But let's not turn ST computers into Culture Minds

Elheru Aran wrote:Though it does come to me that I've read that the majority of Shuttle flights are actually autopiloted almost entirely (strictly IIRC). The joystick is a backup; the crew mostly sits there and watches everything to make sure it goes fine. I think there's been at least one pilot-controlled Shuttle landing just to make sure they could do it, but apart from that they mostly let the computer do it.

On Voyager? Everybody's pounding a tablet screen.

Maybe they're playing Solitaire. Or Minesweeper.

Problem is we can usually see those screens...and they're the typical LCARS layout. Of course maybe they've just gotten really good at ALT-TABing to something that looks like they're working

I've never been a fan of the captain's yacht being built into the outer hull of the ship. Why would they do that? To me it doesn't really make sense. That's valuable space which would be better used for more critical systems, such as weapons, sensors etc. I could understand maybe having one for starships that don't have a shuttlebay for some reason because theremnight be times when having a second smaller craft is crucial, but it doesn't make sense for ships with shuttlebays like the E-D or Voyager.

Except I don't think the Captain's Yacht would fit 'into' the shuttle bays, and even if it did, it would displace a considerable number of ordinary shuttles.
The more interesting question is 'what the hell do they need this thing for to begin with?'

Prancing about, getting some quality time with Vash without Riker cramping your style. That's about it

Batman wrote:Except I don't think the Captain's Yacht would fit 'into' the shuttle bays, and even if it did, it would displace a considerable number of ordinary shuttles.
The more interesting question is 'what the hell do they need this thing for to begin with?'

Given that starfleet ships seem to be on call for diplomatic duty quite often I can imagine that having a yacht to show off your prestige to various small minded small world diplomats might come in handy.

As opposed to...showing off the big honking starship you're already on?

Sorry, I should have been more clear. IMO a captain's yacht is a silly idea most starships seen on screen already have a shuttlebay, so what's the point? Having one mounted in the hull is a waste of space when there are other shuttles available. And you wouldn't really need a yacht that big to begin with.

The only situation where something like this might make sense is for starships that may require a smaller ship to be available for the occasional mission, but not necessarily a shuttlebay full of them. IMO this could be useful for small, short range vessels - any serious maintenance could be done at the nearest starbase, so a full shuttlebay isn't needed. And a shuttlebay would probably take up more space than simply integrating the yacht into the hull.

As for the E-D, E-E, Voyager etc.... ya, no real reason for having a captain's yacht. At least that's my take on it.

Batman wrote:As opposed to...showing off the big honking starship you're already on?

Not everyone will be impressed by the same thing.

Having a bigger, nicer, shuttlecraft could be a better way to ferry diplomats who may not enjoy the transporter and for whom the runabouts might not be nice enough.

One of the elements of the Aeroshuttle is that it was based on the same chassis as the Runabout. And so Voyager would use the same cockpit set as the DS9 Runabout. By this point DS9 was very rarely using the Runabout and cost wise this would have been a significant benefit. Of course the issue of why the Areoshuttle was never used before still comes up. So the Delta Flyer makes sense from an in-universe perspective from what we know.