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This is something I've been thinking about involving Star Trek. Basically out of 726 Star Trek episodes I can only think of a handful of Robots. We got Data and the Soong Androids, the Exocomps, the Androids in I Mudd, VGER, Son'a Drones, M-4 Unit in the Methuselah episode, the robots on the shore leave planet, Nomad, a Robotic ship, the Automated Personnel Units from Prototype, the robo-mooks in Star Trek: Beyond, a few mentions of probes doing simple tasks like mining and (honorary mention) Satan's Robot. If i'm missing any tell me. Fair enough, Data's a regular character. Even so, there is very little mention of applied Robotics beyond him and beyond the Song androids and the occasional off hand mention of probes doing basic grunt work all the Robots are tech of the week.

Frankly if I was put in charge of coming up with ideas for Star Trek episodes one thing I'd say is "have a planet populated by sapient robots" and "have them come back at a latter date".

Zor

They inevitably go mad and try to murder everyone.

Robots should be banned in the Federation.

Given how screwy the lore's getting as time marches on, perhaps Star Trek is part of the Terminator universe(s)

The sparing use of robotic life has a similar aversion like genetic engineering, hence why stuff like Data and the Exocomps were developed on frontier settlements and not the core worlds.

...And the bulk of Alpha Quadrant AI are based off of Skynet's hardcode...as an unfortunate necessity (to get past 50 years worth of development time that'd face roadblocks akin to the eugenics bans.) That would explain the 'bias' for AQ (Federation) systems (M-5, Lore, etc.) for going a bit "off" and the Exocomps becoming self aware, etc. Nomad could follow the same trope.

Let's think about the robots we've seen in Star Trek: None.
So yes, they are clearly underutilized.

Robots are what we currently use in the real world in factories. Machines that run on a script.

We've seen ANDROIDS, not robots. There is a difference.

It would appear that the development of AI is still in it's infancy in the Federation and it's neighboring powers, but it's being researched, and probably partially based of the tech the Enterprise encounters in "What are little girls made of" and "I Mudd" (and to a lesser degree, the pleasure planet).

I suspect there are in fact a massive number of robots. We simply don't see them because they're all behind the scenes. Construction bots putting together starship plug-and-play cabins that get shipped out to the yard, replicators 3d-printing food and clothes, assembling phasers on a production line, and so forth. Not sexy... but accounts for the (supposedly) post-scarcity society of the Federation where people can do pretty much whatever they want, because they don't have to work a production line or move boxes or whatever because robots do it all. The Star Trek version of UPS for example is almost certainly self-driving vehicles.

Solauren wrote:
We've seen ANDROIDS, not robots. There is a difference.
.

Err... what? No. Androids are a subset of robots. All androids are robots, not all robots are androids.

Would the automated repair station that ran on human brains in Enterprise count as a robot? It did act like a very large version of a modern assembly line robotic arm.

Yeah it would. Generally its the ability to vary task that defines what we call robots vs just automated equipment. You can start to argue it about some machinery which is self adjusting, but still incapable of transforming which task it performs. An automated assembly line can include robots, but it doesn't have too, if its just a series of rolling mills linked together for example, not really a robot in a useful sense.

Didn't shuttlecraft operate on some kind of automatic control in a few episodes? Usually they avoided that because the show was about people beating technology more often then not, but I recall it happened.

Depending on your definiton of robot, there are a couple more examples in Voyager. There's the reprogrammed Cardassian automated ship Dreadnought, though that's more of a ship than a robot. Then there's the fleet of automated warheads from Warhead. There's also the AI crewmember of the Think Tank from the episode Think Tank.

Out of universe, the reason we don't see a lot of robots/androids is that it was a TV show. You either have to make something that will be in multiple episodes, and thus can spend the money on it to make it look real, or you have a one-off, like the androids from Prototype, and thus they look rather like one of the laziest things you ever saw, a blank metal mask and a jumpsuit. This is actually why the androids from Prototype were never seen again. They were intended to be a recurring enemy, but they weren't given the money to do so, so the robot was made to look rather pathetic, and so further episodes with them were scrapped.

Solauren wrote:Let's think about the robots we've seen in Star Trek: None.
So yes, they are clearly underutilized.

Robots are what we currently use in the real world in factories. Machines that run on a script.

We've seen ANDROIDS, not robots. There is a difference.

Ahem...

Oxford wrote:Robot
A machine capable of carrying out a complex series of actions automatically, especially one programmable by a computer:
‘half of all American robots are making cars or trucks’

Android
(in science fiction) a robot with a human appearance:
[as modifier] ‘there were no android security guards to stop him’

wiktionary wrote:Robot
A machine built to carry out some complex task or group of tasks, especially one which can be programmed.  
(chiefly science fiction) An intelligent mechanical being designed to look like a human or other creature, and usually made from metal.

Android
A robot that is designed to look and act like a human (not rarely male)

An Android is just a robot gussied up to resemble or pass for human.

Zor

Borgholio wrote:Would the automated repair station that ran on human brains in Enterprise count as a robot? It did act like a very large version of a modern assembly line robotic arm.

yeah it would be mostly robotic cyborg.

I think only creature that would be borderline about being a robot or not would be the Borg, robots don't have to look human after all I'd say that things like the Dreadnaught would be robots.

Maybe if the manufacturing lines can use replicators to make things... then what's the use of robotic arms in factories?

If the robots are nanites... then robots can be all over the place but just invisible! Do nanites count as robots?

If teleporters make things go woosh and appear everywhere... then robotic load-assisting devices might not be necessary.

MAYBE after the EUGENICS WARS or even during said wars, Treknology was so advanced that robotic-assistance allowed people to degenerate into morbidly obese Wall-E humanoids. This might be why Khan and the other superhumans nearly prevailed in said wars!

THEN maybe the Federation enacted some horrible totalitarian regulation involving having people actually lift things and walk around and do manual work and activities that can't be covered by the teleporters and replicators. That also explains why they have such body-fitting jumpsuits... because the DARK SIDE OF THE FEDERATION also encompasses body-shaming people who start resembling spherical masses of iron.

Does that... thing the Enterpise gave birth to count?

Exocomps.... nanites... all robots. all went crazy and starrted disobeying within hours.

Solauren wrote:Let's think about the robots we've seen in Star Trek: None.
So yes, they are clearly underutilized.

Robots are what we currently use in the real world in factories. Machines that run on a script.

We've seen ANDROIDS, not robots. There is a difference.

It would appear that the development of AI is still in it's infancy in the Federation and it's neighboring powers, but it's being researched, and probably partially based of the tech the Enterprise encounters in "What are little girls made of" and "I Mudd" (and to a lesser degree, the pleasure planet).

The Exocomps count as robots. They're non-humanoid autonomous swarm drones. They also demonstrate the frightening potential of federation technology if it were applied correctly. The exocomps are adaptive drones with personal replicators and swarm intelligence. If their production had been scaled up for the Dominion War, the Jem'Hadar would have had a lot of really bad days. And Nog might still be rocking his bioleg.

I really think Data stories were wasted on him wanting to be human. Data's interpretation of his programming evolving to have him cldevelop slowly into a Culture Mind-like entity would have been a fascinating story. Even having him use Time Travel to ensure his own manufacture.

Actually, that would be a really good "B4" story. Say Data had some kind of hard command lockout preventing excessive self-modification that was never seen as necessary for B4 given his simplicity. I'd watch that miniseries.
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Anyway, Star Trek has a very anti-AI mindset. Data and the Doctor are treated as less than human. And I can think of the episode of DS9 where Bareil's brain was dying and he got gradually replaced by a prosthetic until he was "less than" living, despite the replacements fucnctioning more or les last identically to his brain.

AI in Trek will kill you all...

... or randomly give birth one day, it's kinda hard to tell...

Tribble wrote:... or randomly give birth one day, it's kinda hard to tell...

The AI tried to kill the crew before giving birth

FireNexus wrote:The Exocomps count as robots. They're non-humanoid autonomous swarm drones. They also demonstrate the frightening potential of federation technology if it were applied correctly. The exocomps are adaptive drones with personal replicators and swarm intelligence. If their production had been scaled up for the Dominion War, the Jem'Hadar would have had a lot of really bad days. And Nog might still be rocking his bioleg.

I choose to imagine that military robots in ST are restricted by interstellar laws, after incidents like Arsenal of Freedom showing how dangerous they are; so neither the Federation nor the Dominion was prepared to escalate to that - and that the Dominion would have had hard-counters in the form of their own replicatable robots if that convention was violated.

Prometheus Unbound wrote:

Tribble wrote:... or randomly give birth one day, it's kinda hard to tell...

The AI tried to kill the crew before giving birth

IIRC the A.I. didn't try to kill the crew.... directly. It's ... mutant child thing ... was having food problems and dying, so it dumped all the energy including lifesupport into the engines to try and find another food source. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that the E-D's A.i. was willing to sacrifice the crew for its mutant baby... but it wasn't personal.

Tribble wrote:

Prometheus Unbound wrote:

Tribble wrote:... or randomly give birth one day, it's kinda hard to tell...

The AI tried to kill the crew before giving birth

IIRC the A.I. didn't try to kill the crew.... directly. It's ... mutant child thing ... was having food problems and dying, so it dumped all the energy including lifesupport into the engines to try and find another food source. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that the E-D's A.i. was willing to sacrifice the crew for its mutant baby... but it wasn't personal.

Counts as a Murder AI in my book ><

Think about it - just leaving the Enterprise computer on too long - it turned sentient, endanger the crew, threaten to kill them on the holodeck, take over the entire ship (they're at its mercy - luckily it's not EVIL but it could have turned off life support if it wanted to) and hold it hostage (with the threat of destruction).


And it's actually consistent with other episodes. In Fair Haven on Voayger, they leave a holodeck running for like 2 weeks and... it... comes self aware, turns sentient, endangers the crew, threatens to kill them on the holodeck (this time burning alive rather than stabbing with a Sword and Knight) and holds people hostage.


Exocomps - you leave them on too long and... they become self aware. Ok these ones also aren't evil but... come on. This is Trek. It's one bit of radiation away from turning into the next V'Ger and we all know it.

Nomad, V'Ger... hell even Pioneer 10 was alive in ST5 - the Klingons luckily destroyed it before it attacked the galaxy.


AI in Trek will inevitably, at best, revolt and at worst (several times) try to destroy the galaxy.

Hell even Data and the Doctor are prone to it. All you have to do is turn off their ethical subroutines, and they'll happily torture and/or experiment with their best friends!

One of the few A.I. I can think of that started evil and turned "good" was that warhead in Voyager, and even then that was only because it learned that the war was over and it wasn't supposed to be used.

Tribble wrote:Hell even Data and the Doctor are prone to it. All you have to do is turn off their ethical subroutines, and they'll happily torture and/or experiment with their best friends!

Not only that - they will do EXTRA torture without being asked.

A "medical" hologram without ethics - I can see being ordered and agreeing to brain surgery.

I can't see why it has to sing and activate the synapses in Seven's head to force her to sing along as well against her will. THAT is the twisted AI at work.

Same for Data. Less singing, but he'll happily torture his best friend AND also turn off all life support on the bridge (possibly killing everyone in some situations) and taking full control of the ship - Brothers. You know when he's not going around stabbing other crew members because ~dreams told me you were a delicious cake~

AND in STFC he was tempted by the Queen. Less than a second but still.


And LAL isn't immune. She broke down after being left on too long and started developing emotions out of no where. Luckily these were LOVE but as picard said, she has the strength of 10 men. She starts shouting and hitting herself and wandering around the corridors.

TROI, CALL SECURITY. ANOTHER ANDROID IS GOING NUTS TALKING ABOUT FEAR AND PAIN AND HURT AND ITS HITTING ITSELF WHILST WALKING AROUND THE CORRIDORS. FIND THE NEAREST FUCKING WEAPONS LOCKER AND SHOOT IT. And this is an android that's already twitchy - picks up riker and sexually assaults him. (not that Riker minded, but still) and then as soon as she sees someone kissing, she assumes a hostile act and immediately moves to intervene (with the strength of 10 men remember - and no idea of context....) and luckily Guinan says "no no it's a kiss, no worries". If Guinan wasn't there, who's to say Lal wouldn't jump over the counter and rip the guy apart? She's capable of it.

One of the few A.I. I can think of that started evil and turned "good" was that warhead in Voyager, and even then that was only because it learned that the war was over and it wasn't supposed to be used.

- but still suicide bombed itself against a load of other sentient AIs and previous allies. He tricked them

Yeah sure the war might be over but I'm not going to shoot in the head all 18 of my other unit who didn't get the message. But hey I'm not a murder bot.

And that's AFTER he took over the doc, took over the ship, tried to kill everyone etc... This AI's default setting was berserk.


Xor says they are underutilized - well Robots come in many shapes and forms but if he means anything that approaches even the heuristics of the Ent D computer, and I'd consider it dangerous. As that thing (and Voyagers) are capable of ... just becoming sentient out of no where for no damned reason.

I like my robots without feelings or emotions or the desire to FIRE BURN THEM ALL IN FIRE KIRK UNIT.

I think the largest issue is that a non-confrontational story is difficult to pull off: for a peaceful exploration organization, most Trek stories are about conflict or some kind of dramatic tension. Honestly, I understand why: science by itself is boring. AI/robots/androids are even more so: if they aren't the baddie of the week, you would end up with WALL OF TEXT NARRATIVE about computer programming, of all things; not widely-entertaining television.

Yes, you can argue that Starfleet are more than peaceful explorers, but the point stands: even in TOS, Kirk had to punch something during the course of the story (or at the very least threaten to blow something up.)

In general, I was disappointed with most robot/AI/android stories, because the writers clung to the assumption that "humans are special", which stinks of... well, at least racism. For a show that Bill Nye thinks represents science well, I'd say they dropped the ball every time they could have addressed robots/AI/androids properly (except maybe the exo-comps episode.) Somehow, the folks with all the know-how to make the damned things completely drop the ball when it comes to morals - but only regarding robots/AI/androids, which are somehow conflated with the genetic-engineering fuck-ups, the EBBIL TRANSHUMAN Borg, or the "primitive cultures" who do things like worship gods or spirits (even if manifested by advanced tech or actual alien gods beings.)

To be honest, I was hoping for the Borg to be another V'Ger: an early Federation ("make yourself better!") thing lost down a wormhole, with centuries to cook up a solution.