StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Do holodecks have parental or legal lockouts? Is there a "deep holodeck program file" one can access where one's most twisted dreams and desires can be fulfilled? Say, just as an example, could one barbecue babies on the deep holodeck? After all, they're not really real babies, right?

I'm sure there's list of things that cannot be done in starfleet holodeck, as for holodecks in general you got remember that we're talking a technology spread over several species and nations not a single product, so it's impossible to say as there's no galaxy wide standards for holodecks we know of apart from the bloody obvious ones.

It's like asking are there things that you are not allowed to do with cars, sure there's local rules and those rules tend to have things in common, but those rules are still just local.

Also Holodecks aren't the Star Trek equilevant of the internet.

All right, thanks for clarifying that.

Any sort of "deep web" equilevant wouldn't make any sense for Starfleet ships (as Starfleet is a govermental organization) and with Quark's I suspect there's limits to what Quark would allow in his Holosuites simply because he doesn't want to be on the bad side of the DS9 administration. (to quote SFdebris "you don't fuck with the Sisko").

While suspect you might be able to find a "no limits" holodecks they would be run by the Orion Syndicate or other criminals.

Going by the time Troi overrode a privacy lock to get at someone in a private session, and found herself portrayed as some kind of "love goddess", I'd guess it's not exactly forbidden, but at least considered a few sigmas out on the "kinky" bell curve, and unbelievably tacky.

SpottedKitty wrote:Going by the time Troi overrode a privacy lock to get at someone in a private session, and found herself portrayed as some kind of "love goddess", I'd guess it's not exactly forbidden, but at least considered a few sigmas out on the "kinky" bell curve, and unbelievably tacky.

It should be noted that it was also rather tame all things considering, it's not like Troi found Barkley humping said "love goddess" but rather it was more like something out of a romance novel.

While tacky and in poor taste it's not really that bad either certainly there is implications that certain officers enjoy more explict programs then that even if those programs don't involve their coworkers. That said I suspect that if something is illegal under federation laws it's hardlocked out of starfleet holodecks.

I'm sure there was at least one episode where Sisko expressed concern about what holo-programs Nog was exposing Jake to. We also know that Quark has made some profits and personal use from the holo-novel Vulcan Love Slave. As for how deranged it can get? Star Trek is mostly a family show, so we haven't really seen how far they go with it.

Most of the Trek crews we see prefer to only use the holodecks for a fun LARPing session(Sherlock Holmes, Captain Proton, apprenticing to Leonardo, Shakespeare performances), for a date or family night, or for some sort of professional capacity(designing a ship, recreating a scene for an investigation, helping design something, etc.)

Though, all the holodecks and holosuites we see are rather public servers. such as Quark's bar holosuites, or ones on a Starfleet ship. It is mentioned that a few individuals have private holosuites. The only one we know for sure who has his own private holosuite is Tiron, and he wanted a holo-copy of Kira for his own personal pleasure. I'm sure his private collection of data-rods might include programs that are beyond what most people do on public computers.

We also know of people creating private programs:

SISKO: You do understand the terms of your parole?
TOLAR: Oh, yes. I have to promise to stay away from the Klingon Empire. That'll be tough. And I have to create some kind of a special holoprogramme for you. I can hardy wait. I've never worked for Starfleet before.
SISKO: Let's be very clear about this. You're not working for Starfleet. This entire matter is off the record. As far as you're concerned, you're working for me.
TOLAR: Oh. A personal matter. Something special for your eyes only. Something with, perhaps, five or six Orion slave girls....

So, there is some sort of market for programs like that.

Also, keep in mind what the Hirogen made the holodecks that Janeway gave them for their ceasefire. They routinely used it for hunting sport over and over again, making sure that their holographic prey could feel the pain they inflicted, so that they would remember the experience and become smarter prey.

Janeway and company were naturally revolted, but it is something someone can do if they feel like being vindictive.

I would expect that the two big, obvious limits would be on selling/allotting holodeck time to minors for inappropriate programs (see aforementioned example with Jake), and maybe (as AI rights progress) what you can do with self-aware holograms.

Edits: And the safety protocols, of course. Really, it should be illegal to turn them off under most circumstances. God knows their are enough holodeck accidents as it is.

I would expect that, realistically, their'd be rules about using peoples' likenesses without their consent. And apparently their are intellectual property laws, as it comes up when the Doctor wants to keep something he wrote from being published (the issue, as I recall, was that he was a hologram, not that intellectual property rights didn't exist).

The Romulan Republic wrote: I would expect that, realistically, their'd be rules about using peoples' likenesses without their consent.

Not in early TNG apparently

The argument can be made, I suppose, that the holodeck was a fairly new technology when TNG came out, possibly originally created for the very wealthy (as wealthy as one can get in a post-scarcity society I suppose) or the military, and thus simply nobody thought through all the ramifications because they weren't the type to think of those things!

We never see kids using the holodeck as far as I know until DS9, so it's possible they weren't allowed to use them at all without being in the company of a parent or guardian? who would then naturally be trusted to keep holo content appropriate.

Elheru Aran wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote: I would expect that, realistically, their'd be rules about using peoples' likenesses without their consent.

Not in early TNG apparently

The argument can be made, I suppose, that the holodeck was a fairly new technology when TNG came out, possibly originally created for the very wealthy (as wealthy as one can get in a post-scarcity society I suppose) or the military, and thus simply nobody thought through all the ramifications because they weren't the type to think of those things!

We never see kids using the holodeck as far as I know until DS9, so it's possible they weren't allowed to use them at all without being in the company of a parent or guardian? who would then naturally be trusted to keep holo content appropriate.

Wesley used the Holodeck in at least 2 TNG episodes, one of them the pilot.

Lord Revan wrote: Wesley used the Holodeck in at least 2 TNG episodes, one of them the pilot.

And wes was in there with a friend or two as well - someone comes out with him who had hit him with the snowball.

There's also Treevus and Flotta, those retarded characters from Voyager which were available to children around and before this time.

And Alexander and Lwaxana Troi visit some sort of weird mud bath on the holodeck in a bad episode.

Elheru Aran wrote:The argument can be made, I suppose, that the holodeck was a fairly new technology when TNG came out, possibly originally created for the very wealthy (as wealthy as one can get in a post-scarcity society I suppose) or the military, and thus simply nobody thought through all the ramifications because they weren't the type to think of those things!

Not canon, but the STNG Officer's Manual (FASA, 1988) said holodecks were originally developed for patient therapy, then made the jump to general entertainment/training.

If anything, given that their first appearance is on Starfleet vessels, I would speculate that (in the Federation at least) they were first deployed by Starfleet for crew training (and likely quickly made the jump to recreation when stopping at a planet for shore leave wasn't an option), and only later expanded into the civilian market.

Prometheus Unbound wrote:

Lord Revan wrote: Wesley used the Holodeck in at least 2 TNG episodes, one of them the pilot.

And wes was in there with a friend or two as well - someone comes out with him who had hit him with the snowball.

There's also Treevus and Flotta, those retarded characters from Voyager which were available to children around and before this time.

Gah, those two are perfect examples of the kinds of things that should have been banned. Thanks for reminding me

Why are they the kinds of things which should have been banned?

I would think that using the holodeck for engaging educational content would be an ideal use.

The Romulan Republic wrote:...And the safety protocols, of course. Really, it should be illegal to turn them off under most circumstances...

I can't recall other instances of disabling the holodeck saftey protocols off the top of my head, but in TNG Descent, Part 1 it couldn't be done alone:

Chrissie's Transcripts Site wrote:DATA: ...Computer, reset simulation to time index two point one. Increase Borg strength by thirty percent.
COMPUTER: Unable to comply. A thirty percent increase would exceed safety limits.
DATA: Geordi, the computer will require the voice authorisations of two senior officers in order to disable the safety routine. Will you help me?

Also, If the Enterprise school computers from "Rascals" are any indication, I would think that a child trying to create a program outside of established norms or guidelines would not be allowed to do so.

Darth Lucifer wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:...And the safety protocols, of course. Really, it should be illegal to turn them off under most circumstances...

I can't recall other instances of disabling the holodeck saftey protocols off the top of my head, but in TNG Descent, Part 1 it couldn't be done alone:

In Extreme Risk, B'Elanna was able to disable safety protocols by herself. Of course, this was years after TNG and on a ship out on its own. It's possible that some ramshackle repair had the result of changing how things worked. Of course, Voyager was shown to operate in perfect condition 99% of the time, except when plot required something to break, so it's probably just an oversight.

I wouldn't be surprised if Torres had just messed with the holodeck so no authorisations were needed.

True enough. She was both a very skilled engineer and a high ranking officer (and a department head). It's probable that there are more things allowed the higher you get in the ranking structure.

Gandalf wrote:Why are they the kinds of things which should have been banned?

I would think that using the holodeck for engaging educational content would be an ideal use.

Oh I have nothing against using the holodeck for educational purposes, I just feel Treevus and Flotter ought to have been deleted on sight.