Star Trek: Discovery, Season 3 (Spoilers)

[Darth Lucifer]

It's finally here! And the wait has been totally worth it.

Michael talking herself at the beginning of the episode was really hammy; I get that she's a little off because of her Vulcan upbringing but I seem to recall other scenes where she's talked to herself and didn't come off so cheesy. I don't really blame SMG entirely, this is also the fault of the director. What I did like from her was when Michael got high and loopy from the truth drug...that was some pretty funny shit, espeically when she mentioned Tilly.

In the fight scene near the beginning of the episode, I saw a combination of traditional martial arts mixed with some MMA and it was very well choreographed, well done.

Book and Sahil were the highlights of the episode; both of them delivered very powerful performances, especially the latter's scene with Michael - This for me truly captured the spirit of Star Trek in a way that hasn't been done in either this show or Picard.

Loved Grudge.

I'm still not a fan of how they throw so much computer FX in the space battles and other scenes in Discovery. It's really distracting and not very easy on the eyes when you're watching it on a large screen television. More =/= better.

I didn't like the Andorian makeup, it's just like when TNG and later shows decided to slap forehead ridges on the Romulans and Vulcans. There was nothing wrong with the Andorians from Enterprise, they didn't appear to be so waxy like they appeared in this show. Again, more =/= better. But I did like seeing one of the alien thugs that was the same species as Morn from DS9, that alien was well done, even if he was just an Alien redshirt.

Overall, it was a decent start to Season 3; I can't wait to see the next episode.

[Crazedwraith]

Currently watching season 2 for the first time, hope it holds the interest enoguh that I'll continue into season 3 and can discuss.

[Darth Lucifer]

Season 2 was an improvement over season 1 in alot of ways, I hope you make it through to season 3.

For me, the highlight of Season 2 was Pike, Spock and Number One. They were so awesome in fact, that the next Trek series is a spinoff featuring all three. I can't wait.

[Crazedwraith]

Season 2 was an improvement over season 1 in alot of ways, I hope you make it through to season 3.

For me, the highlight of Season 2 was Pike, Spock and Number One. They were so awesome in fact, that the next Trek series is a spinoff featuring all three. I can't wait.

Up to episide 10 or so I think. I was surprised that Discovery is established to be post The Cage. I wonder how much time that leaves the Pike Spin off to operate in without treading on Kirk/TOS timeline. Granted I only count Disco to be part of the main timeline in broad strokes.

[Darth Lucifer]

Actually, DSC is supposed to be before The Cage. No spoilers, but you'll see what I mean when you get to the episode which firmly establishes this.

[tezunegari]

Actually, DSC is supposed to be before The Cage. No spoilers, but you'll see what I mean when you get to the episode which firmly establishes this.

Which episode is that?
I don't remember anything "firmly establishing" that Discovery is set before The Cage...
Are you referencing the episode with the crystal?
To my knowledge Discovery is set in 2256-2258. 2 years after the Cage, and 7 before Kirk takes command of the Enterprise.

[AniThyng]

Actually, DSC is supposed to be before The Cage. No spoilers, but you'll see what I mean when you get to the episode which firmly establishes this.

I think you're confusing between "the cage", and "the menagerie", that discovery episode clearly establishes disc is after the events of the cage, but before the framing events of the menagerie.

[bilateralrope]

Episode 3 felt like a solid Star Trek plot. Nothing that I expect to be memorable, but nothing I'm going to complain about.

I also find myself more interested in the seasons plot than I did at any point in season 1 or 2.

[FireNexus]

I was talking with Dalton about this on Twitter, but I found myself irrationally angry that they failed to lock down the solar system. Even ignoring the Trek Beltalowda, it’s a pretty shitty planetary lockdown if anyone can move in and set up a staging area to fuck your shit up In the outer solar system. And let’s remember that THEY DIDN’T EVEN HAVE SENSORS THAT COVERED THE OUTER SOLAR SYSTEM.

LIKE, fuck. Were there dilithium crystals in your fucking brain when the burn happened?

[bilateralrope]

I agree that they have no excuse for the lack of sensor coverage*. That blown up Federation outpost sounded like it had a multiple lightyear range on its sensors, even with the long range sensors being gone. Hell, even regular radio communication with Titan would have prevented their raider problem.

As for locking down the rest of the solar system, I'm not sure how a staging area would help anyone with enough dilithium to attack Earth. It seems better to just warp right into orbit and attack. Question is if anyone has enough dilithium to risk attacking a fortified planet.

If the attackers don't have enough dilithium to attack, then they aren't going to be leaving whatever system they are in.


*Wasn't there a season 1 episode where we had the same complaint about shitty planetary sensors ?

[Darth Lucifer]

Actually, DSC is supposed to be before The Cage. No spoilers, but you'll see what I mean when you get to the episode which firmly establishes this.

I think you're confusing between "the cage", and "the menagerie", that discovery episode clearly establishes disc is after the events of the cage, but before the framing events of the menagerie.

You know what, you're right...I stand corrected. I was running on lack of sleep and got my wires crossed. I totally forgot the episode where we saw that it was established as being Post-Cage. My bad.

[Crazedwraith]

And now I'm actually watching season 3. Here some thoughts on the first episode, written as I watched:

That Hope Is You, Part I which is not followed by Part 2 according to the episode list on Netflix.

This dude at the very start, I assumed he had historical records of Discovery’s fate and is waiting for them.

There’s kind of Farscape air of her getting ejecting out of a wormhole and an Andromeda edge to being stuck as the last Federation ship in the future.

Dilithium is not fuel that’s used up. Or at least it wasn’t. Dilithium limitations fits a TOS era show but far future? I’m not sure it would have that big an impact. The list of other methods of FTL was interesting though.

Sonequa Martin-Green must have had a blast playing high Michael though. As opposed to either stoic or distraught which seem to be the majority of screen time in season 2.

Michael disintegrated a lot of people with that future-phaser.

Oh, hey that’s Morn’s species! Andorians, Orions, Morns, I’m happy to see familiar faces in the future.

And the last scene is lovely and hopeful. Not bad at all Disco S3

[bilateralrope]

Dilithium is not fuel that’s used up. Or at least it wasn’t. Dilithium limitations fits a TOS era show but far future? I’m not sure it would have that big an impact. The list of other methods of FTL was interesting though.

My understanding is that it's a crucial part of the mater/anti-matter reaction in warp cores, and it's something that does wear out. There are a few mentions of a re-crystallizing it across multiple series but, unless that process is perfect, there is still going to be some loss over time.

[Crazedwraith]

Dilithium is not fuel that’s used up. Or at least it wasn’t. Dilithium limitations fits a TOS era show but far future? I’m not sure it would have that big an impact. The list of other methods of FTL was interesting though.

My understanding is that it's a crucial part of the mater/anti-matter reaction in warp cores, and it's something that does wear out. There are a few mentions of a re-crystallizing it across multiple series but, unless that process is perfect, there is still going to be some loss over time.

Yes, it's used to moderate the matter/anti-matter reaction in a warp core. No other show has really show it wear out over time, at least not quickly enough that you need new pebbles of it for every journey as Book seemed need here. You can't just dump chunks of it in the tank and over you go.

The only time they need more of it was in The Voyager Home when they had to figure out how to recrystallise it after it was broken by time travel, a very special circumstance.

You don't even need dillithium for warp. Romulans used just fusion /'impulse' power in TOS. And artificial singularities in TNG+. The quantum slip stream core for example probably didn't need it either.

[Eternal_Freedom]

IIRC the quantum slipstream drive the Voyager built in that alternate-future timeline needed some special, rare, short-lived mineral and that's what forced them to go full steam ahead (and then crash and die).

[Crazedwraith]

IIRC the quantum slipstream drive the Voyager built in that alternate-future timeline needed some special, rare, short-lived mineral and that's what forced them to go full steam ahead (and then crash and die).

Yeah, I think it was in fact a rare version of dilithium, so scratch that one. I just remember the original core in fake Dauntless looking completely different, like a sphere contraption.

It still feels to me like a bit of a contrivance, 900 years later they should be beyond dilithium. But apparently not, it's a minor bugbear and I'm willing to see where they're going.

[Formless]

Memory alpha doesn't mention Benamite being a form of Dilithium. And checking other sources (namely Chuck's review of Timeless...)... nope, they just invented it for the plot of Timeless, and it appears to be its own kind of ore (never mentioned before, but good on them for remembering you need Benamite for Q-Slipstream). Book mentioned in the first episode that if he could get his hands on benamite crystals he could use his ship's quantum slipstream drive, so clearly the technology has been mastered by now. Which makes sense, given that A) the Federation seems to have spread across the whole galaxy now (or at least into multiple quadrants) and B) they were hitting a wall with making warp drive any faster without damaging subspace. Quantum Slipstream was written in Timeless as if it really was the breakthrough transwarp technology Starfleet had been looking for for a long time, given that both the Delta Flyer and Geordie LaForge's ship could trivially travel to the edge of the Delta Quadrant merely 15 years after Voyager's disastrous flight. So that's well within Picard's lifetime that they could have made something of the technology. So really it seems like their real problem isn't a lack of dilithium, its a lack of Benamite. Dilithium makes your civilization interstellar, but Benamite lets it span an entire galaxy. Wonder how they will come up with a solution to this conundrum? Or maybe they will just ignore it? Retconning Benamite to just be a form of dilithium would probably be the simplest solution, as we know what happens when a ship is forcefully thrown out of a Quantum Slipstream...

[bilateralrope]

That or just have Benamite being really rare. So rare that it quickly ran out when everyone tried to use it, and what stockpiles are left of it are guarded even more heavily than dilithium.

Yes, it's used to moderate the matter/anti-matter reaction in a warp core. No other show has really show it wear out over time, at least not quickly enough that you need new pebbles of it for every journey as Book seemed need here. You can't just dump chunks of it in the tank and over you go.

Didn't Voyager have to restock their dilithium a few times ?
Which means that it ran out for them.

I don't recall Book saying the exact amount he needed. Just that he needed some and Micheal grabbed up all she could. Yes, it's shitty security to just have them lying in the open like that. But that vault that trapped Michael didn't have any cameras that saw Book, so the locals relying on being threatening instead of sensible security seems to be the theme there.

As for just dumping chunks into the tank, everything we saw said that Book could. So I think he has something to process those chunks into a usable form.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Didn't the Federation have full-fledged, easy to use time travel by the 29th century? At least by the 31st. Dilithium really, really shouldn't be an issue. Hell they even called them "Timeships" for goodness sake.

[Crazedwraith]

Okay, episode 2. Which not quite as good as episode 1, in that it had to cover some of the same ground.

Hope the Detmer subplot is expanded upon because that was a little weird. Though I wouldn't be surprised given this is the same day from their point of view as the Battle with Control, that the crew would be exhausted and approaching burnout.

Mirror!Georgiou is a character I can never quite get and handle on who she is. Obviously she cares about Michael and otherwise is a dick it just never quite clicks. I mean like Michelle Yeoh being around and kicking ass but... eh.

Pissed they killed the nice guy rather than recruited him though.

[tezunegari]

Didn't the Federation have full-fledged, easy to use time travel by the 29th century? At least by the 31st. Dilithium really, really shouldn't be an issue. Hell they even called them "Timeships" for goodness sake.

According to Book in S3E01 they banned and destroyed Timetravel tech after the Temporal Wars.
Idiotic, when you consider that you only need a warp drive, a star, and "a bit of math" to pull off a slingshot maneuver since the 2280s.

Another thing is that there have been at least two alternative power sources used for Warp drive and Slipstream on TNG and VOY.
Romulan Singularity Cores (possibly limited to D'deridex Warbirds) and whatever Arturis' used on the Dauntless (Paris identified it as "I don't know what this is but it's not M/AM-style warp core")

At this point, I really watch Discovery for the "how are they going to violate existing lore this time".

[AniThyng]

Too much trivial time travel really just bugs me, I know it's an integral part of the setting now and has been for as long as it's been around but really, the horror of it, your entire existence can be wiped out at the whim of time travelers... Even if it's usually for the best..

[bilateralrope]

Didn't the Federation have full-fledged, easy to use time travel by the 29th century? At least by the 31st. Dilithium really, really shouldn't be an issue. Hell they even called them "Timeships" for goodness sake.

According to Book in S3E01 they banned and destroyed Timetravel tech after the Temporal Wars.
Idiotic, when you consider that you only need a warp drive, a star, and "a bit of math" to pull off a slingshot maneuver since the 2280s.

Or just go talk to one of the god beings who have no reason to comply with whatever the mortal races agree to. I doubt the burn was good for Bajor.

I'm expecting this season to end one of two ways:
- Discovery goes back in time and prevents the burn.
- They find out that the burn was a result of someone stealing dilithium from the past. Maybe they prevent the theft. Maybe the future suddenly has a lot of dilithium again.

[Formless]

Or just go talk to one of the god beings who have no reason to comply with whatever the mortal races agree to. I doubt the burn was good for Bajor.

Except the Prophets' unique perspective means they often respond to negative events in a different way to mortal species. They might decide that its bad, but also an inevitable tragedy they cannot prevent. Or have a contingency plan that doesn't prevent the Burn, but minimizes the damage to their favorite planet. Remember, the Prophets didn't do jack shit to protect Bajor from being occupied for the greater part of a century, why would it be different if its a century of collapse of the Federation instead? Hell, this could even be an opportunity for Bajor to rise in power above its status as a Federation member world or ally. All it would take is for Bajor to retain a significantly higher amount of Dilithium or Benamite and they're set to become a major hub, not to mention that the Wormhole becomes relevant again as a way to travel to and from the Alpha and Gamma quadrants.

Keep in mind that there is at least one mirror universe where the Bajorans not only overthrew the Cardassians on their own but became an overzealous enemy of the Federation in the process. Could be that this is what Sisko's mysterious mission at the end of DS9 was all about. Time will tell if they intend to revisit that place. They revisited the Trill and remembered that humans are compatible hosts for the symbionts, after all!

I'm expecting this season to end one of two ways:
- Discovery goes back in time and prevents the burn.
- They find out that the burn was a result of someone stealing dilithium from the past. Maybe they prevent the theft. Maybe the future suddenly has a lot of dilithium again.

Both seem cheap, and I'm actually confident the writers won't use either solution. The Discovery crew may have a working time machine, but the whole point in coming to this century is to play keep away with an entity who for all they know is a player in the very temporal cold war that the time machine disarmament was supposed to end. It would totally explain why the plan worked, after all. The Burn doesn't change their original mission, and as 23'rd century Starfleet personnel especially, they would be more hesitant, not less, to use backwards in time travel to prevent a future they happen to dislike. They're not the Relativity crew, and they wouldn't want to fuck with said timeship for that matter. Not with the outdated tech they're using. Whatever they may think of the Burn, it happened, and must be dealt with as a problem of the here and now.

Meanwhile the latter speculation is predicated on a theft that seems honestly less likely than the Q just fucking with everyone, or even more likely, this has something to do with the mycelial network somehow. That is still Discovery's gimmick, after all. But yeah, the thing is that this doesn't appear to be how time travel works in Trek. If you steal something from other time periods using a time machine, people in other centuries don't normally notice unless either they personally are connected to your shenanigans and end up existentially stranded until they can fix the mess, or they have specialized sensors like the Relativity and the Krenim time weapon had. With the Burn, all the dilithium just spontaneously failed. That suggests something more akin to the Q fucking with the rules of reality for their own amusement or to fight off a threat only they can perceive. Or something like that.

Honestly, this season looks to me like the writers went back to Gene Roddenberry's script proposal that originally became Andromeda, but this time without Captain Hercules around to completely fuck up the production with his egotripping bullshit. That means the Burn is just a means to explaining how the Federation had their Roman Empire collapse moment-- and remember that unlike Andromeda, its heavily implied that the Federation is still out there somewhere disconnected from its old territory and finding them is a major goal of Burnham and the crew. Maybe the Federation has become a Delta Quadrant player centered on Talax or something, kinda like the Byzantine empire and its relationship with classical Rome. Rebuilding the Federation is Burnham's main objective, and uncovering the mystery of how the Burn happened is a secondary objective-- possibly even a B plot meant for the Discovery and her crew to achieve because, frankly, they've written things to seem like Burnham feels more at home in this time period than the one she left. On a meta level, that's another reason I don't think they're going to resolve this with cheap time travel bullshit. They've sunk too much effort into Burnham's character development (one could even go so far as to call it a character reboot) to just hit the magic reset button this time. Besides the fact that Discovery for all of its flaws so far has done a good job in general of avoiding that tired old Voyager cliche.

[Crazedwraith]

Episode 4 chugged along nicely. It was a bit forced to make Michael the one to go down with Adira to help her and keep her out of the crew B plot I guess.

I like that all the trill came around at the end when Adira proved a good host. And the scene with past lives join with her was great. Also several styles of Starfleet uniform, including one from Picard but a couple of new ones.

The dinner scene was hard to watch but the plotline makes sense and I hope it's continued on from here because one fight over dinner and a film night isn't going to cut it.

Is now upgrade computer the same voice as the ship's computer in the Short Trek Calypso?