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On the Pheonix, he's the chief tactical officer. On the Enterprise, he's a Lt. and transporter operator. Then on DS9 he's an enlisted engineer.


WTF? He changes rank at least twice, goes from a Commissioned Officer to an NCO, and from Tactical to Transporters to Engineer.

Prehaps cheif is more of a title and not a rank.

Admiral Johnason wrote:Prehaps cheif is more of a title and not a rank.

Chief is a rank, it's E-7.

Yes i know Navy ranks, but I am just saying that maybe the called him Chief was because he was a department or station chief, instead of the rank. It is the only thing I can think of because they never said he was demoted.

His rank clearly changed from TNG to DS9, both in the insignia and turning into a NCO.

Not to mention him being the ONLY NCO in Starfleet. Thats one thing that pissed me off in Trek. They really needed NCO ranks to fill the majority of the ships roles.

AFAIK GR actually thought a whole Starship would all be officers.

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:AFAIK GR actually thought a whole Starship would all be officers.

Not bloodly likely. TOS and specificaly the TOS movies got it right. Mostly NCOs with a fair number of officers. Damn those uniforms and type divisions were very well done.

Alyeska wrote:

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:AFAIK GR actually thought a whole Starship would all be officers.

Not bloodly likely. TOS and specificaly the TOS movies got it right. Mostly NCOs with a fair number of officers. Damn those uniforms and type divisions were very well done.

I'm talking about early TNG, which was his "true" version of ST.

Wan'st O'Brian referred to as "Chief" in TNG? I thought I remembered that.

In DS9 they also say O'Brian was a former solider, giving me the notion he was in an infantry unit at some time.

The only constant in modern Trek is that it's not.

Didn't he fight against the Cardassians?

Of course, he did mention before that he used to be afraid of hurting things.

1. Yes he fought Cardassians.
2. I assumed "Chief" mearly refered to Transporter Chief, since he had a LT. rank.

I know he got into a street battle with Cardassians. Then there was the DS9 episode where the Jem Hadar loose their addiction to the White.

In "DS9," O'Brien was DEFINATELY enlisted. He told Keiko that he would have to call Jake's Ferengi friend "sir" when he graduated the academy. Also, his rank insignia changed to stripes.

Any chance Miles was holding a brevet or acting rank on the E-D and then went back to his substantiative rank on DS9?

Ignorant twit wrote:Any chance Miles was holding a brevet or acting rank on the E-D and then went back to his substantiative rank on DS9?

Possibly, but he mentioned that part of his transfer to DS9 involved a promotion. He could have meant from his original rank though.


Basically, the Trek dweebs should have thought a bit more and planned things better when they started up TNG. They've still never fully developed the Crewman ranks.

There was an TNG rerun the other day I saw that had him referred to as "Lieutenant" and he had 1 1/2 pips (ie- LT (JG) ) on his collar.
I suppose it's possible he was busted then re-promoted to CPO, but that seems improbable.
Continuity bugs...sigh

Speaking of which, AFAIK Tuvok had a Lt. Commander insignia for a while in Voyager, but people called him LT. It might have then changed to Lt. and then he was "promoted" back to Lt. Commander!

Tsyroc wrote:

Ignorant twit wrote:Any chance Miles was holding a brevet or acting rank on the E-D and then went back to his substantiative rank on DS9?

Possibly, but he mentioned that part of his transfer to DS9 involved a promotion. He could have meant from his original rank though.


Basically, the Trek dweebs should have thought a bit more and planned things better when they started up TNG. They've still never fully developed the Crewman ranks.

Hey I'm just looking for the least nutty explanation for what clearly is stupidity on the part of the writers. I do get tired of everybody and their brother being officers.

It was an error and trying to retroactively justify it sucks. Easiest way I see is to say his rank on the E-D was not permanent and he was promoted up as a NCO when he went back to DS9.

Certainly seems more plausible than demoting him down.

I just remembered a TNG episode where Worf's adoptive parents come on board the E-D. His dad jokes with O'Brian about "working for a living" which is an enlisted joke. I thought he refered to O'Brian as a fellow enlisted man.

TrailerParkJawa wrote:I just remembered a TNG episode where Worf's adoptive parents come on board the E-D. His dad jokes with O'Brian about "working for a living" which is an enlisted joke. I thought he refered to O'Brian as a fellow enlisted man.

I think you're right on that. I also remember Worf's adopted father joking that he was a chief and worked for a living.

O'Brien was definatley a red/gold shirt before his time on the E-D. When he goes with several engineers to salvage parts from DS9's abandoned counter part Garick was baiting him all episode about his role in a major ground victory over the Cardies in which O'Brien earned some kind of Bravery Medal.

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:On the Pheonix, he's the chief tactical officer. On the Enterprise, he's a Lt. and transporter operator. Then on DS9 he's an enlisted engineer.


WTF? He changes rank at least twice, goes from a Commissioned Officer to an NCO, and from Tactical to Transporters to Engineer.

Enlisted personel can hold a billet that an officer would normally fill, so he might have been the chief tactical officer, but that does not make him a commissioned officer. I believe that on TNG O'Brien had pip with the center missing or 1/2 pip, and I think that at the time that was what they were using to designate the rank of chief. On DS9 they finally got smart enough to make a big enough difference in rank insignia to be able to obviously see it.
Now correct me if I am wrong didn't O'Brien mention going to starfleet academy? why he went(if he went) and did not get a commission I have no idea.
One your comment about going from tactical to transporters to engineering, that is fairly common in the military to cross train and move from one area to another when you get a new assignment/move to a new unit .

He might have went to the accademy briefly, but what if the war with the Cardassians broke out half way through and he left the accademy to go into active service with security?

Darth Pounder wrote:He might have went to the accademy briefly, but what if the war with the Cardassians broke out half way through and he left the accademy to go into active service with security?

It's TNG canon that recruits for the ranks of the enlisted Starfleet personel (at least those within reasonable travel distances of Starfleet Academy) also go to Starfleet Academy for their initial training, per "The Drumhead." The enlisted program is apparently just a shortened version of the regular program for officers.

Also, reference the rank confusion, Worf's foster father, apparently retired Starfleet, greeted O'Brien as a fellow warrant(ed) officer, producing further confusion.