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Even though B&B are total fuckups and have screwed up the francise, I have come to believe that St was going to go under anyway. Seriously, after DS9, where could you go? The explorer episodes had all been done. DS9 was mostly a war saga. God like beingings had been over done. Medical thrillers were out of steam. Time travel episodes were a thing of the past.Inner struggles were all in the light by then.

Seriously, they had nowhere else to go but down and copy old stories' basic plots. By the end of DS9, the whole francise was a cheihe.

All I am saying is is that St had nowhere else to go after DS9, hense why I fell that that is the place where the canon univerde should end.

I think they can go into how they destroyed the Borg Although I haven't seen much of DS9 so they may have done that.

I agree that B&B are the main problem, but their are lots of ideas that could still make great series.

I always thought that the premise for the Star Trek: New Earth novels would have made a great series. Basically, its about the Enterprise, under Kirk and crew, leading a fleet to colonize a planet far from the Federation. That premise could work, though it doesnt have to involve Kirk or crew.

They could do a series in the TWOK through TUC time period about the Fed/Klingon Cold War.

They could have done a real "Birth of the Federation" series, with the Romulan War and its aftermath.

They could do a series about the first extragalactic mission to the Andromeda Galaxy.

Crime Drama are big now, how about Star Trek:CSI. Ok maybe not.

Those are just a few I just came up with. There are lots of great ideas out there that could make interesting series. Its the people writing the show who are the real problem. Look at Voyager, great idea, crappy writers.

The main plot of Voyager wasn't that bad. It was just made horrible by B&B.

After DS9, they needed to SHRINK the scope of the stories. I'd be interested to see Star Trek do a show about a small covert ops company, pulling clandestine missions against the Federation's galactic neighbors.

SPOOFE wrote:After DS9, they needed to SHRINK the scope of the stories. I'd be interested to see Star Trek do a show about a small covert ops company, pulling clandestine missions against the Federation's galactic neighbors.

Well THAT'S certainly not in the spirit of ST.

Well, the way I see it, it's like this. There are a few levels of 'retarded' and Star Trek without B & B probably would have reached Level One Retarded.

Now, under the direction of B & B we are now at DefCon retarded. In the even of some kind of retarded emergency, you crawl into "Enterprise." There you will withstand the bomb.

neoolong wrote:The main plot of Voyager wasn't that bad. It was just made horrible by B&B.

Agreed. Voyager allowed a lot of flexibility that could have been put to good use.

Star Trek: Seven of Nine. The quest to be an intergalatic pornstar.







...Well you can't say it won't do good!

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Star Trek: Seven of Nine. The quest to be an intergalatic pornstar.







...Well you can't say it won't do good!

I'd watch it, as long as neelix isn't involved.

Rye wrote:

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Star Trek: Seven of Nine. The quest to be an intergalatic pornstar.

...Well you can't say it won't do good!

I'd watch it, as long as neelix isn't involved.

Neelix....played by Ron Jeremy withouth any prostetic makeup

Voyager could really have been great. Strand a pair of ships on the other side of the Galaxy, fill it with people who want to kill each other, let them try and get home.

Of course, it wasn't great, but.

The problem with Star Trek is that they get some good idea's for a series then they fuck it up by not following the course of established events.

The problem is that Star Trek will forever be dominated by Gene Roddenberrys ghost and it winds up Beavis and Butthead up that Star Trek was never their idea and they can only bastardise it to make it theirs.

I think that, while there could still be plenty of opportunity for movies (GOOD ones), for the most part the TV series had been exhausted. Maybe a deep-space (deep deep) exploration/colonization thing like New Earth could have worked, and that would have been interesting in the right hands. To make it even more interesting, they could have put it on the Excelsior. Assuming they started that series after DS9, instead of Voyager, it could have had a good run and even had Sulu commanding.

God, it's kinda depressing when you think about what could have been.

Admiral Johnason wrote:Even though B&B are total fuckups and have screwed up the francise, I have come to believe that St was going to go under anyway. Seriously, after DS9, where could you go?

Just look at Stargate, Babylon 5, Andromeda, Farscape shows the possibilities for stories are endless just as there are many stars in the milky way galaxy. Unfortunately B&B don't have the brainpower to make up something new.

I am going to step in and say that I did think that the whole of Voyager reminded me of TOS in that the ship was usually cut off form aid and that it was forced to fend for itself.

Now here's a thought: if Ent. were a brand new franchise that was unrelated to ST in any way, would it have been better since most of the arguements are based on voilations of the canon timeline?

Admiral Johnason wrote:Now here's a thought: if Ent. were a brand new franchise that was unrelated to ST in any way, would it have been better since most of the arguements are based on voilations of the canon timeline?

I kind of think so, since I've actually enjoyed the little of it I've seen, although the continuity issues are glaring.

It would have been easy to spin it off too. Change the name of the ship, lose the UFP patches on the uniforms, and get a better intro.

Dunno if they could have kept on using the "warp" name for the technology or not.

Rye wrote:
I'd watch it, as long as neelix isn't involved.

If it was a regular character who never spoke but always ended up being hit by a truck I'd watch.

SirNitram wrote:Voyager could really have been great. Strand a pair of ships on the other side of the Galaxy, fill it with people who want to kill each other, let them try and get home.

Of course, it wasn't great, but.

That's the tragedy of the whole thing. JMS said he was worried when he first heard about Voyager because they were in a position to blow the doors off of TV sci-fi and I think he was right.

Look at it: you've got two groups of people with a profound political and moral disagreement with one another trying to work together to survive in a strange part of the galaxy cut off from everything they know. The premise itself is enough to suggest any number of possibilities for character drama, adventure, and/or science fiction stories. Even better, it's backed up by a studio with a lot of money and a major built-in fan following, so they should be able to get plenty of good talent on board if they choose to do so.

You have to work pretty hard to fuck up a gold mine like that, but bless their little hearts, B&B rose to the challenge and fucked it up nevertheless.

To add insult to injury, there were even episodes that showed a glimpse of what Voyager might have been if the producers had pulled their heads out of their asses. "Year of Hell" and "Course: Oblivion" had moments that showed how much more interesting the show could have been if The Powers That Be hadn't been dead-set on hitting the reset button for the end of each episode.

Admiral Johnason wrote:Now here's a thought: if Ent. were a brand new franchise that was unrelated to ST in any way, would it have been better since most of the arguements are based on voilations of the canon timeline?

I don't think so. I didn't pay much attention to the continuity issues and I still never got into it. It was just a dull, unimaginative show to me.

Also, I have to wonder how much any Trek continuity issues matter of the majority of the viewer population. That is, how many people watching (or not watching anymore, as the case may be) are Star Trek fans who don't like what's being done to the franchise versus Joe Blow viewers who just aren't entertained by what they saw?

I suspect that for every Trekkie who tuned out because the show shit on the established history of Trek, there's ten non-Trekkies who tuned out simply because Enterprise sucks the big one.

-- Joe Momma
And goddammit too, 'cause I really liked Scott Bakula in Quantum Leap...

They had to spread out of the original "one adventuring ship & crew" with either side stories in a overall Trek universe, or remaking it.

Star Trek: Civil War

A coup'd'etat makes the Starfleet choose its loyalties. The Admiral now in charge is also a hardcore proponent of the Fed Marxism...the ship the show revolves around is torn as the Rebel element is funded and aided and run by exiled human and other Federation business men and other such dissenters and capitalists and struggle between their ideology of Communism and of free human rights and such against the dictator.

Part of why they needed the Voyager Reset ButtonTM was because of budget issues--if Voyager retained damage from episode to episode, they'd have to throw out most of their stock footage, and if the crew started personalizing the ship the way they logically would have, they'd need to build a lot more sets or spend more time redressing sets between shots (IIRC, there was only one curved section of corridor and one straight section of corridor built). By all rights, Voyager should have looked like a lot more like she did at the end of "Year of Hell" by "Endgame" than the ship that set out in "Caretaker". At best, she would have been a Frankenstein ship patched together with spare parts acquired all over the Delta quadrant. There are two solutions to this problem, one unpalatable from a story angle, the other from the studio's point of view. They could have simply swallowed the costs and shot fresh ship footage every time VOyager took a beating, built new sets and remodeled old ones to reflect the passing of time (this would have made it take longer to shoot each episode, too), or keep the ship largely out of danger and limit the damage she takes, which would hamstring your writers badly and kill a lot of potential drama. B&B, among their many faults, managed a compromise that made Voyager a laughingstock--beat the shit out of her in act four and have her look like she's fresh out of the shipyard by the end of act five.

RedImperator wrote:Voyager should have looked like a lot more like she did at the end of "Year of Hell" by "Endgame" than the ship that set out in "Caretaker".

*Gets a mental image of Harry Kim on the hull with a mop and bucket.*

Teehee!

Admiral Johnason wrote:Now here's a thought: if Ent. were a brand new franchise that was unrelated to ST in any way, would it have been better since most of the arguements are based on voilations of the canon timeline?

I watched part of the Enterprise pilot. In that brief period, I noticed that the look and feel of the show was exactly like Voyager. That's when I tuned out.

And there's your problem, folks. Even if it was completely unrelated to Star Trek, it would still have the look and feel of Voyager.

What they need to do is branch out into different show formats. For example, a half-hour sitcom about Neelix and Tuvok sharing an apartment.

Sci-Fi sitcoms don't exactly have a long history. I think Red Dwarf is the most famous one that comes to mind. I can't even think of any others.