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In the Kira vs Padme thread (the parts of it that did not involve lesbian strap-on action), the old argument was repeated that Kira must be a fantastic combatant because she can take down Klingons. And after all, Klingons are mighty warriors, right? Well, I just thought I'd review what's basically common knowledge (as far as I'm concerned), but which appeared to be forgotten by some people:

Background

• In some historical battles, armies caught unprepared and unaware by a new and unconventional force would be routed because they reacted out of panic.
• Modern military training techniques are designed to ensure that this will not happen.
• Starfleet men are routinely routed by Klingon warriors wielding knives and screaming at them.

Hypothesis:

• Starfleet men are routed by knife-wielding Klingon idiots because they panic in the face of a knife rush.
• Starfleet men panic because they are poorly trained.

Further evidence:

• We've seen Starfleet men take incomprehensibly stupid actions in the face of Klingon assault ("Nor the Battle to the Strong" is simply horrifying in its military ineptitude; the soldier using a drop-cloth for cover in battle is simply not something that should have ever happened).
• We've seen Starfleet men being routed by Klingon assault, even with the use of knives.
• To paraphase Sean Connery, only a Klingon brings a knife to a gunfight. Guns are better than knives.
• Battle-hardened "main characters" mow down Klingons left, right, and centre, about as easily as you would expect considering the Klingons' horrible tactics.
• The soldier who blew off his toe to avoid battle was simply a disgrace. Against enemies who charge in knife-wielding mobs and use mortars so feeble that you won't get killed by a hit 3 feet away, any real soldier would laugh his ass off, not blow his toe off.

Conclusion: Klingons are useless in battle, but the Federation soldiers, apparently trained in classical literature rather than combat, do not fall into the typical pattern of a well-trained military and revert to training when under attack. Rather, they react with blind fear, hence their unco-ordinated and often downright inept defensive actions in the face of Klingon knife rushes.

In my opinion, there is simply no other excuse for the effectiveness of Klingon warriors.

I agree, but this appears to be a TNG phenominon. In Star Trek III they used a knife to do a exicution. But when Krug beams down to confront Kirk he is pointing a gun(phaser or a disrupter can't tell) at kirk and co. Kirk is only able to start a fist fight becausea tremor causes him to drop his gun which they then both go for! So what happened to the Klingons?

So the answer would be send Romans?

The pilum thrown would out range the Klingon's by far, and the charge of betleth's would do little against the shield wall right?

Got to agree with all of it. The Klingon's rely solely on shock effect for combat. Maneuver and firepower doesn't enter into it very much if at all. British Generals who ordered attacks with rifles empty and fix bayonets during the Boer wars had more sense.

Isn't there some fucking moronic Voyager episode that has Klingons beating Wehrmacht soldiers? Fuck whoever wrote that should be SHOT for their fucking rank ignorance.

It's interesting to note that Worf seems to be a better fighter than the average Klingon though he was raised in the pacifistic Federation rather than the warmongering Klingon Empire. I know part of that's the usual "major character shield", I can't help but wonder if part of that had to do with him learning not to go off like a shrieking psycho at every opportunity, i.e. he had to learn some self-control instead of acting like a homicidal spastic.

The Jem'Hadar's close quarters combat tactics were similar and might also provide evidence for the theory suggested above, as much as I hate to beat deceased equines like "The Siege of AR-ghhh I can't believe I'm seeing this."

BTW, did anyone else notice that of the two major characters most frequently injured in those big fight scenes were Major Kira and Chief O'Brien, the only two characters with extensive combat experience? Just a coincidence or some horrible subconscious brain bug on the writers' parts?

-- Joe Momma

Edit: fixed some speling errorz. I is smart!

Vympel wrote:Isn't there some fucking moronic Voyager episode that has Klingons beating Wehrmacht soldiers? Fuck whoever wrote that should be SHOT for their fucking rank ignorance.

Beating what the holodeck thinks Wehrmacht troops would be like. Given their massive level of military ineptness I doubt the AI would be worth shit.

Joe Momma wrote:It's interesting to note that Worf seems to be a better fighter than the average Klingon though he was raised in the pacifistic Federation rather than the warmongering Klingon Empire.

Actually, Worf isn't much better. He is just as slow and plodding as any Klingon I've seen swing that Bat'leth. Kira would kick his ass too. Then ass-rape him with the dildo.

Lord Poe wrote:
Actually, Worf isn't much better. He is just as slow and plodding as any Klingon I've seen swing that Bat'leth. Kira would kick his ass too. Then ass-rape him with the dildo.

That's a horrible mental image.

"Who's your daddy!"

Lord Poe wrote:Actually, Worf isn't much better. He is just as slow and plodding as any Klingon I've seen swing that Bat'leth. Kira would kick his ass too. Then ass-rape him with the dildo.

Alternate universe Kira would probably do exactly that too.

This is the PST forum, not the sex forum. Please try and stay on topic.

Vympel wrote:

Lord Poe wrote:
Actually, Worf isn't much better. He is just as slow and plodding as any Klingon I've seen swing that Bat'leth. Kira would kick his ass too. Then ass-rape him with the dildo.

That's a horrible mental image.

"Who's your daddy!"

I see her saying "Who`s your mommy"

Vympel wrote:Isn't there some fucking moronic Voyager episode that has Klingons beating Wehrmacht soldiers? Fuck whoever wrote that should be SHOT for their fucking rank ignorance.

They didn't even FUCKING SHOOT! (Killing Game Pt. 2)

The Klingons are so pathetic that the British army of the 18th century could wipe out an entire battle cruiser's worth and take few if any casualties. Give me a Maschinengewehr-44 and enough ammo and I can wipe out an entire colony.

*Loads shotgun with plastic/glass pellets, so that it won't penetrate the hull material, even the crappy material surrounding the warp cores...*

*Cha-click*
"Time to hunt Klingons...."

DarthBlight wrote:The Klingons are so pathetic that the British army of the 18th century could wipe out an entire battle cruiser's worth and take few if any casualties. Give me a Maschinengewehr-44 and enough ammo and I can wipe out an entire colony.

An MG-42 in "The Siege of AR-whatever", a single MG-42....*goes off for a rant*

Darth Wong wrote:In the Kira vs Padme thread (the parts of it that did not involve lesbian strap-on action), the old argument was repeated that Kira must be a fantastic combatant because she can take down Klingons. And after all, Klingons are mighty warriors, right? Well, I just thought I'd review what's basically common knowledge (as far as I'm concerned), but which appeared to be forgotten by some people:

Background

• In some historical battles, armies caught unprepared and unaware by a new and unconventional force would be routed because they reacted out of panic.
• Modern military training techniques are designed to ensure that this will not happen.
• Starfleet men are routinely routed by Klingon warriors wielding knives and screaming at them.

Hypothesis:

• Starfleet men are routed by knife-wielding Klingon idiots because they panic in the face of a knife rush.
• Starfleet men panic because they are poorly trained.

Further evidence:

• We've seen Starfleet men take incomprehensibly stupid actions in the face of Klingon assault ("Nor the Battle to the Strong" is simply horrifying in its military ineptitude; the soldier using a drop-cloth for cover in battle is simply not something that should have ever happened).
• We've seen Starfleet men being routed by Klingon assault, even with the use of knives.
• To paraphase Sean Connery, only a Klingon brings a knife to a gunfight. Guns are better than knives.
• Battle-hardened "main characters" mow down Klingons left, right, and centre, about as easily as you would expect considering the Klingons' horrible tactics.
• The soldier who blew off his toe to avoid battle was simply a disgrace. Against enemies who charge in knife-wielding mobs and use mortars so feeble that you won't get killed by a hit 3 feet away, any real soldier would laugh his ass off, not blow his toe off.

Conclusion: Klingons are useless in battle, but the Federation soldiers, apparently trained in classical literature rather than combat, do not fall into the typical pattern of a well-trained military and revert to training when under attack. Rather, they react with blind fear, hence their unco-ordinated and often downright inept defensive actions in the face of Klingon knife rushes.

In my opinion, there is simply no other excuse for the effectiveness of Klingon warriors.

And that's before we add the sheer firepower of SW blasters into the equation...

I have a crazy idea sending an army of monkey against Klingons,they may get slaughtered but the Klingons will be covered with crap.

Lord Poe wrote:

Joe Momma wrote:It's interesting to note that Worf seems to be a better fighter than the average Klingon though he was raised in the pacifistic Federation rather than the warmongering Klingon Empire.

Actually, Worf isn't much better. He is just as slow and plodding as any Klingon I've seen swing that Bat'leth. Kira would kick his ass too.

I wasn't saying he was much better or was a mighty fighter in general. I was just noting that he usually has little trouble beating other Klingons (which ain't exactly playing against the varsity -- friggin' Pee Wee Herman would have likely been bathing in Klingon blood if he'd guest-starred on the show).

-- Joe Momma

The thing that brings it really home regarding the Klingons was the failed invasion of DS9. Dukat and Garek just stood there for hours at the end of a hall way shooting the charging morons. By the end of the invasion Garek had got pissed off and was actually fighting them with their own bat'leth's. If an undercover tailor/spy and a toady starship Captain/Gul can wipe out like 50 klingon warriors it's no wonder the Klingon's considered Tribbles mortal enemies.

Please. What does Klingons have to do with combat effectiveness?
If the Feds in TNG says the Klingons are a warrior race, then what are they compare to a well trained US army? Cannon fodder?

To even give the Klingons the title of 'Warrior race' they can't be military handicaped, and that is exactly what they are. Humans today are far more worthy the title 'Warrior race'

Dark Primus wrote:Please. What does Klingons have to do with combat effectiveness?
If the Feds in TNG says the Klingons are a warrior race, then what are they compare to a well trained US army? Cannon fodder?

That's the point of this thread, in a roundabout way -- if the Federation consider the Klingons a warrior race, it reflects more on the Federation's military ineptitude than the Klingon's non-existent battle prowess.

-- Joe Momma

To even give the Klingons the title of 'Warrior race' they can't be military handicaped, and that is exactly what they are. Humans today are far more worthy the title 'Warrior race'

Hey, cut them a little slack, they're a "Warrior" race, not an "Intelligent warrior" race.

IG-88E wrote:

To even give the Klingons the title of 'Warrior race' they can't be military handicaped, and that is exactly what they are. Humans today are far more worthy the title 'Warrior race'

Hey, cut them a little slack, they're a "Warrior" race, not an "Intelligent warrior" race.

They're "warriors" in the sense that ant colonies have a warrior class.

Darth Wong wrote:

IG-88E wrote:

To even give the Klingons the title of 'Warrior race' they can't be military handicaped, and that is exactly what they are. Humans today are far more worthy the title 'Warrior race'

Hey, cut them a little slack, they're a "Warrior" race, not an "Intelligent warrior" race.

They're "warriors" in the sense that ant colonies have a warrior class.

But ants use better tactics than the Klingons ever did. Warrior Termits could do a better job