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8472 is from fluidic space, a dimension that is full of some sort of fluid material, correct?

The existance of all that matter should cause a gravity well, limiting the size of fluidic space before it becose a black hole, correct?

Also, would it not be akin to being deep underwater where there would be a huge pressure exerted on the ships, again limiting it's size because the ships are not crushed?

Or anm I just way the hell off base because of how diffused it is?

Ender wrote:8472 is from fluidic space, a dimension that is full of some sort of fluid material, correct?

From the description in Voyager, yes.

Ender wrote:The existance of all that matter should cause a gravity well, limiting the size of fluidic space before it becose a black hole, correct?

I am guessing no, but I have no real idea.

Ender wrote:Also, would it not be akin to being deep underwater where there would be a huge pressure exerted on the ships, again limiting it's size because the ships are not crushed?

IF there was gravity yes it should be like underwater. My question would be which way would the gravity pull? Because fluidic space (if like our space) should be never ending in its dimension so I don't think that pressure would exist like in the ocean. Besides if there was that kind of pressure then Voyager should have either been crushed because it was unprepared for fluidic space or at least had some sort of complication arise from it.

Ender wrote:Or anm I just way the hell off base because of how diffused it is?

IMHO you are wrong, but I could be just as wrong.

I'd just leave it at "weird fucking new diminsion that the Paramount script monkeys cooked up to be exotic". I doubt there was very much thought put into the matter.

Perhaps gravity has a weaker presence in their universe, or perhaps they have an absence of dark matter to generate the gravity in specific places to create galaxies and the like.

My guess would be the fludic stuff is what they have instead of hydrogen from their big bang.

I would hazard a guess that in their dimension, gravity has much less of an effect, leaving the fluid pretty much in one place, not a massive pulling effect, nor the repulsive effect we get over long distances.

Fluidic space is a dimension where a big bang never accured, I guess.

Bump, any other thoughts people?

And I would think the pressuer would push towards the center, there is suppossed to be a mess of black holes and neutron stars at the center, right?

Fluidic space is just one gigantic fuckup.

IF there was gravity yes it should be like underwater. My question would be which way would the gravity pull?

Towards the center of mass, obvously. Fluidic space must be quite young - perhaps even artificially created (some Superbeing's personal pocket universe, maybe?) - or else all that matter would start clumping together, and as more and more mass was added, it would all continue to collapse in on itself.

Further, fluidic space is definitely of a finite size. In the episode Unimatrix Zero (or something like that), a Borg drone that Seven fell in love with said that he was "on the other side of the galaxy, patrolling the edge of fluidic space." (Paraphrased)

SPOOFE wrote:

IF there was gravity yes it should be like underwater. My question would be which way would the gravity pull?

Towards the center of mass, obvously. Fluidic space must be quite young - perhaps even artificially created (some Superbeing's personal pocket universe, maybe?) - or else all that matter would start clumping together, and as more and more mass was added, it would all continue to collapse in on itself.

Further, fluidic space is definitely of a finite size. In the episode Unimatrix Zero (or something like that), a Borg drone that Seven fell in love with said that he was "on the other side of the galaxy, patrolling the edge of fluidic space." (Paraphrased)

Hmm, maybe fluidic space is just a region in another universe/dimension, or in our own then.

Aya wrote:Fluidic space is a dimension where a big bang never accured, I guess.

Ugh, you have no idea how idiotic what you just said is...

A universe (not dimension, that's an error in termination) were a big bang never occured is literally less than nothing, because there was nothing before the Big Bang. And not nothing like "emptiness", nothing as in "absolutely nothing".

The thing about the 8472 dimension is that it apparently involves laws of phsyics that do not apply to our universe and what not, so applying our own universe's laws of physics seems wrong in some way.

Fluidic Space is not another dimension. At least according to Voyager.

I remember watching a Voyager episode where 7 of 9 was dreaming. When she dreamed she entered this strange reality that the minds of some Borg went into when they regenerated. It was like an offline hivemind that the Queen had no control over.

One odd thing about the place was that none of the Borg whose minds were there knew where they were in real life till something changed towards the end of the episode.

7 of 9's "boyfriend" in the episode tells her his real borg body is on a small scout cube on the "edge of fluidic space". Yep one of the dumbest statements possible in a series full of dumb statements. Try to reconcile that one with fluidic space being its own dimension.

DocMoriartty wrote:Fluidic Space is not another dimension. At least according to Voyager.

But weren't 8472 ships accessing the DQ through some sort of tears or something between regular space and fluidic space? I wont pretend to understand Treknobabble and the worthlessness behind it but it still sems to me that 8472 is from a part of space where our laws of physics do not apply.

Darth Fanboy wrote:

DocMoriartty wrote:Fluidic Space is not another dimension. At least according to Voyager.

But weren't 8472 ships accessing the DQ through some sort of tears or something between regular space and fluidic space? I wont pretend to understand Treknobabble and the worthlessness behind it but it still sems to me that 8472 is from a part of space where our laws of physics do not apply.

Obviously the dimensional gate was nothing more than a method of instant travel that took ships to the edge of fluidic space which somehow existed in our galaxy.

Otherwise how could a Borg Cube patrol the border of fluidic space?


My theory would be that "Fluidic" space was merely nothing more than a superdense nebula that Species 8472 resided within. I wouldnt put it past a Trek crew to mistaken a nebula for some sort of fluid. Also this would explain how Voyager was able to operate within "Fluidic Space" at all.

DocMoriartty wrote:
Obviously the dimensional gate was nothing more than a method of instant travel that took ships to the edge of fluidic space which somehow existed in our galaxy.

Otherwise how could a Borg Cube patrol the border of fluidic space?


My theory would be that "Fluidic" space was merely nothing more than a superdense nebula that Species 8472 resided within. I wouldnt put it past a Trek crew to mistaken a nebula for some sort of fluid. Also this would explain how Voyager was able to operate within "Fluidic Space" at all.

So what you are saying is that people are using the term "fluidic space" more literally than they should be, interesting.

Watch yourslef though, you said in a previous post that Fluidic space wasnt another dimension, but you just referredto the border of fluidic space as a "dimensional gate"

And if there was a tear or something between real space and fluidic space that would technically be the border, which Borg Ships would patrol.

Just reusing the terminology already out there.

There have been previous examples of space folding in ST. Barclay was made a super being by a probe so that he could space fold the Enterprise-D to an alien solar system.

So the borgs "dimensional gate" or "rift" or whatever they called it was merely a space fold that took the Voyager to a remote portion of the galaxy dominated by a super dense nebula.

I am sure the Borg knew full well what the "gate" really was. They just fed Janeway an alarmist line to get them to help.

Personally, I like the idea of Fluidic Space being some artificially-created pocket universe, that some Superpowerful being made to play around with, and that 8472 is just one of this Superbeing's creations.

Let's face it... something like Fluidic Space - assuming roughly equal physics (or hell, just gravity) - cannot exist naturally.

SPOOFE wrote:Personally, I like the idea of Fluidic Space being some artificially-created pocket universe, that some Superpowerful being made to play around with, and that 8472 is just one of this Superbeing's creations.

Let's face it... something like Fluidic Space - assuming roughly equal physics (or hell, just gravity) - cannot exist naturally.

Well in our universe, the further away you get from large bodies, gravity appears to have a repulsive force doesnt it? MAybe in the 8472 universe, repulsive and attractive forces are the same (i think i remember someone saying stuff like "no stars, no planets") when they had telepathic contact with them).

alternatively yeh, either some distant bit of the galaxy, or perhaps in another galaxy entirely, or some kind of hyperspace or whatever...

Rye wrote:

SPOOFE wrote:Personally, I like the idea of Fluidic Space being some artificially-created pocket universe, that some Superpowerful being made to play around with, and that 8472 is just one of this Superbeing's creations.

Let's face it... something like Fluidic Space - assuming roughly equal physics (or hell, just gravity) - cannot exist naturally.

Well in our universe, the further away you get from large bodies, gravity appears to have a repulsive force doesnt it? MAybe in the 8472 universe, repulsive and attractive forces are the same (i think i remember someone saying stuff like "no stars, no planets") when they had telepathic contact with them).

alternatively yeh, either some distant bit of the galaxy, or perhaps in another galaxy entirely, or some kind of hyperspace or whatever...

It has to be a part of our galaxy. How else could the Borg be patroling the border of Fluidic space?

DocMoriartty wrote: It has to be a part of our galaxy. How else could the Borg be patroling the border of Fluidic space?

Along the fold in space between our galaxy and wherever could be considered a border.

DocMoriartty wrote:
Well in our universe, the further away you get from large bodies, gravity appears to have a repulsive force doesnt it? MAybe in the 8472 universe, repulsive and attractive forces are the same (i think i remember someone saying stuff like "no stars, no planets") when they had telepathic contact with them).

alternatively yeh, either some distant bit of the galaxy, or perhaps in another galaxy entirely, or some kind of hyperspace or whatever...

It has to be a part of our galaxy. How else could the Borg be patroling the border of Fluidic space?[/quote]

repulsive force?? errrm I don't believe so, bodys of gravity can cancel each other out at a certain point but they cant repel. if you travel far enough of the solar system our sun would no longer have a noticable gravity pull on your ship but you would still be affected by the gravity pull from our galaxy and the rumured black hole at the centre of it.

Like I said before the easiest solution is that fluidic space is merely a very dense nebula which blocked Voyagers sensors so that she could not detect objects outside the nebula.

Wrath wrote:

DocMoriartty wrote:
Well in our universe, the further away you get from large bodies, gravity appears to have a repulsive force doesnt it? MAybe in the 8472 universe, repulsive and attractive forces are the same (i think i remember someone saying stuff like "no stars, no planets") when they had telepathic contact with them).

alternatively yeh, either some distant bit of the galaxy, or perhaps in another galaxy entirely, or some kind of hyperspace or whatever...

It has to be a part of our galaxy. How else could the Borg be patroling the border of Fluidic space?

repulsive force?? errrm I don't believe so, bodys of gravity can cancel each other out at a certain point but they cant repel. if you travel far enough of the solar system our sun would no longer have a noticable gravity pull on your ship but you would still be affected by the gravity pull from our galaxy and the rumured black hole at the centre of it.[/quote]

It's currently thought by some, that gravity has a repelling effect over very long distances, and that's why the universe is accelerating in its expansion.

Rye wrote:
It's currently thought by some, that gravity has a repelling effect over very long distances, and that's why the universe is accelerating in its expansion.

eerm the most thoery about why the universe is accelerating is there isn't enough matter to keep it together, scientists are still trying to measure how much Dark matter there is in the universe to conferm what will happen to is. but i've never read or heard of the theory you've quoted.

edit

ok I did a little bit of research into this and relise where you've made your mistake. when Einstein wrote the theory of relavity his original resualts did not fit what could be proved. so he added a cosmological term to it. which was basically a repulsion term for gravity which could only be felt over long distances....

later when new research proved his original theory correct he retracted this cosmological term and said it was a mistake.

Wrath wrote:

Rye wrote:
It's currently thought by some, that gravity has a repelling effect over very long distances, and that's why the universe is accelerating in its expansion.

eerm the most thoery about why the universe is accelerating is there isn't enough matter to keep it together, scientists are still trying to measure how much Dark matter there is in the universe to conferm what will happen to is. but i've never read or heard of the theory you've quoted.

edit

ok I did a little bit of research into this and relise where you've made your mistake. when Einstein wrote the theory of relavity his original resualts did not fit what could be proved. so he added a cosmological term to it. which was basically a repulsion term for gravity which could only be felt over long distances....

later when new research proved his original theory correct he retracted this cosmological term and said it was a mistake.

No einstein put the constant in it to keep the universe static (as was the idea at the time). He said it was the biggest mistake of his life. So they removed it, and regained the term later to explain the apparent accelleration of the universe. (The spacecraft that have now left our system started to show accelleration before they stopped transmitting IIRC).

Also if there wasn't enough matter in the universe, that would explain why its still expanding, but not accellerating.