The "Borg Killer" ship

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2003-05-12 10:17am

I was thinking that if the Boprg are running around adapting their shields to whatever weaponry happens to be used against them, then it seems to me they must be opening weaknesses in their defences. Granetd, the cubes are pretty good at taking damage, mostly *because* they are very inefficient in terms of space; they must have lots of backup systems. nevertheless, it seems a viable tactic for making a Borg-Killer shp would be to add weaponry of several different types.

For example, in addition to the phaser/torpedo route, you could add in railguns, or if those aren't accurate enough, solid-core missiles. They've demonstrated some very oddball wepaons over the years, so I'm not going to list them all. Still, it seems like a good bet. You woldn't eve really have to make any huge overhaul in the ship, if you have budgetary problems or their are political problems with making dedicated warships.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-12 10:21am

As I mentioned earlier, your probably better off just channeling as much power as possible into one type of weapon. Adding lots more weapons types on one hull wont give you more energy to work with.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-05-12 10:26am

The most effective anti borg weopen would be a massive particle beam. No matter what darkstar says the borg can not adapt to kinetic energy. Particle beams deliver their kinetic energy directly into their targets shield generator, a sufficiently powerful model will rip shield generators apart from the cube's hull. There is no way you can adapt to that. Railguns do the same thing except that the borg can destroy the unshielded projectiles before they hit the hull. Small scout ships turned into cruise missiles would also work but hundreads would be needed considering the high gigaton (nearly a teraton) level shields on borg cube.

Secondly the federation might consider replacing photon torpedo warheads with tri cobalt devices, as demonstrated in "the caretaker" they are quite powerful.

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2003-05-12 11:58am

As I mentioned earlier, your probably better off just channeling as much power as possible into one type of weapon. Adding lots more weapons types on one hull wont give you more energy to work with.

I'm not so sure; it seems the Borg sheilds (and others, to a lesser degree) can become more efficient and hence, useful if optimized for the right threat.

Railguns do the same thing except that the borg can destroy the unshielded projectiles before they hit the hull.

Depends on how fast its going...

I like the idea about the particle beams.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-05-12 04:22pm

There are two ways to beat the Borg: adapt faster than them or throw so much raw energy their way optimization becomes pointless. It would be better to try to develop one or two weapons that can do the latter; however, if that's beyond the Federation's capabilities, then this specialized Borg-killer might have merit.

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2003-05-12 04:34pm

Regarding tri-cobalts...IIRC they aren't used against moving objects because they are supposed to be significantly slower than torpedoes. They are more powerful, but lack the speed and manoverability. Also, I think I heard somewhere that QT's are based off tri-cobalt weaponry. But I could be mistaken.

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2003-05-13 09:41am

I figured that multiple weapons might do well since you seem to need to do a lot of unlocalized damage to put down a cube, unless you happen to know the secret weak points. Which no one does.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-05-13 03:57pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:As I mentioned earlier, your probably better off just channeling as much power as possible into one type of weapon. Adding lots more weapons types on one hull wont give you more energy to work with.

Just like they tried to do in Best of Both Worlds with the deflector dish. I have always wondered why the Defiant, a ship specifically designed to fight the Borg, wasnt designed around such a weapon.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-05-13 05:56pm

evilcat4000 wrote:The most effective anti borg weopen would be a massive particle beam. No matter what darkstar says the borg can not adapt to kinetic energy. Particle beams deliver their kinetic energy directly into their targets shield generator, a sufficiently powerful model will rip shield generators apart from the cube's hull. There is no way you can adapt to that. Railguns do the same thing except that the borg can destroy the unshielded projectiles before they hit the hull. Small scout ships turned into cruise missiles would also work but hundreads would be needed considering the high gigaton (nearly a teraton) level shields on borg cube.

Secondly the federation might consider replacing photon torpedo warheads with tri cobalt devices, as demonstrated in "the caretaker" they are quite powerful.

That is why we have turbolasers son.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-05-13 10:08pm

Lol.

If you think about it, blow up a cube would be EASY

Photon Torps and Q.Torps have a yield of what, max 100 megatons?

Stick a few 300 megaton nukes in some Photon Torp's, and fire them at the Borg.

Let's see them stop a nuclear shockwave

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-05-13 10:18pm

Macross wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:As I mentioned earlier, your probably better off just channeling as much power as possible into one type of weapon. Adding lots more weapons types on one hull wont give you more energy to work with.
Just like they tried to do in Best of Both Worlds with the deflector dish. I have always wondered why the Defiant, a ship specifically designed to fight the Borg, wasnt designed around such a weapon.

I suspect that the Defiants were originally intended to be deployed in much greater numbers. Also, IIRC at the time the Galaxy class mounted the most powerful M/AM reactors in the Federation and could not throw enough energy at the Borg cube to stop it. It may have been felt (or even proven) that they could not reliably construct a reactor big enough to throw enough energy at the Borg.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-05-14 04:21pm

Uraniun235 wrote:I suspect that the Defiants were originally intended to be deployed in much greater numbers. Also, IIRC at the time the Galaxy class mounted the most powerful M/AM reactors in the Federation and could not throw enough energy at the Borg cube to stop it. It may have been felt (or even proven) that they could not reliably construct a reactor big enough to throw enough energy at the Borg.

Multiple ships trying the deflector-dish attack would have done the job too. Ideally, the Defiant-Class should have looked like a no-frills stripped down version of the stardrive section of a Galaxy-Class. I guess the writers felt that a starfleet ships with a really big gun on the front would look to much like anime.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-05-14 05:29pm

Is it just that Homeworld two is comming soon, or am I starting to consider that a Homeworld Mothership+Fleet would have no trouble defending against the borg?

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2003-05-14 06:12pm

Ohh has anyone tried doing calculations on Homeworld weapons? And half their weapons are kinteic, like heavy railguns and such, then theirs the Ion beam cannons. Besides if all else fails just ram 600 Interceptors into it!

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-05-14 07:40pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Is it just that Homeworld two is comming soon, or am I starting to consider that a Homeworld Mothership+Fleet would have no trouble defending against the borg?

If their combined weapons output is greater then the Borgs shield strength, I dont see why not.

BTW, do you know the release date for Homeworld 2?

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2003-05-15 10:05am

throw rocks at them! one or two small planets should suffice

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-15 10:18am

Jawawithagun wrote:throw rocks at them! one or two small planets should suffice

We've already seen Borg cubes blown away by chunks of a planet.

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2003-05-15 10:52am

Sea Skimmer wrote: We've already seen Borg cubes blown away by chunks of a planet.

See! Borgs, you just can't throw enough rocks at them!

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-05-15 11:55am

Solauren wrote:Lol.

If you think about it, blow up a cube would be EASY

Photon Torps and Q.Torps have a yield of what, max 100 megatons?

Stick a few 300 megaton nukes in some Photon Torp's, and fire them at the Borg.

Let's see them stop a nuclear shockwave

Just how are you supposed to put that many nuclear devices inside a torpedo. Photon torpedoes use matter / antimatter annihalaion which is a thousand times more powerful than nuclear fusion. It would be more sensible to increase the amount of antimatter in the torpedo. Remember both fission and fusion weopens are bigger and bulkier than torpedoes. The 15 kiloton bomb used against hiroshima was several times the size of a 64 megaton torpedo.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-05-22 11:09am

I didn't mean 5 or six in one case.

I'm talking 1 300 megaton nuke per case

Since the max yield on a Photon is like 64 megatons....

you figure it out

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2003-05-25 08:00pm

Just a side question, when I saw the heavy hull weapon on the upgraded NCC-1701D, I assumed it was initially developed an anti-borg weapon. What is your assumption? I mean, a 16 inch gun on an iowa class battleship is designed to kill other battleships, it still does a great job on a cruiser or destroyer.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-25 08:15pm

Solauren wrote:I didn't mean 5 or six in one case.

I'm talking 1 300 megaton nuke per case

Since the max yield on a Photon is like 64 megatons....

you figure it out

Such a nuclear weapon could easily require a weapon 5-10 meters across. It would require much larger launchers and the magazines would hold far fewer of them. It is highly unlikely you'd ever get a better effect with nuclear weapons when anti matter is a working option.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 2003-05-26 01:17am

Let's see them stop a nuclear shockwave

in space? am I missing something?

That is why we have turbolasers son.

Give the Borg turbolaser technology, then they will mount Turbolasers on all Cubes and then they will start blowing up because of the recoil forces. Problem solved.

It may have been felt (or even proven) that they could not reliably construct a reactor big enough to throw enough energy at the Borg.

Why not stick more reacotrs on the ship then? Galaxies and Nebulas most likely have enough room for more then one reactor.

Homeworld 2

WOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

the heavy hull weapon on the upgraded NCC-1701D

The one in the possible future?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-05-26 01:44pm

Since we have seen repeated incidents of large starships (>100m length) easily approaching a Borg cube to within point-blank range for repeated passes because of its poor targeting, it should be quite easy to build a huge AI-controlled kamikaze bomb ship with a few tons of M/AM onboard. With standard starship-grade shields, this weapon should probably kill a Borg cube with one hit.

I don't see why this idea would evade the geniuses in Starfleet.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-05-26 02:26pm

Darth Wong wrote:Since we have seen repeated incidents of large starships (>100m length) easily approaching a Borg cube to within point-blank range for repeated passes because of its poor targeting, it should be quite easy to build a huge AI-controlled kamikaze bomb ship with a few tons of M/AM onboard. With standard starship-grade shields, this weapon should probably kill a Borg cube with one hit.

I don't see why this idea would evade the geniuses in Starfleet.

What, and kill a perfectly good plot device?!

Hell with the antimatter. Just strap a few impulse engines on a 60+ meter asteroid and ram the cube with it