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Hello

I was bored and a thought came to me

Romulan Warp cores use a "forced qauntum singularity" as there power source (translation: Mini Black holes?).

Fine and Dandy

how are they in comparisson to a Federation Anti-matter reactor in terms of size, power generation, and safety?

Safety wise, they have to be better. All the times we've seen a Romulan Warbird in action they appear to hold up better then the Enterprise in terms of not blowing up from being bumped or something else.

Size wise: Am I right to believe they are smaller then a Federation Warp Core? Granted, we only saw on once, but the reactor looked to be something you could shove replace your fridge with

Power output: I'm GUESSING they'd have to be equal or better then an anti-matter reactor.

Thoughts? Grand Admiral Thrawn? Darth Wong?

What? I'm not worth asking for an opinion?

I would have to say the Romulan power generation devices are much more effective then M/AM cores. The Quantum Singularity is much more stable and when there is a possibility of faliure it will collapse in on itself rather then blowing up the entire ship. They seem to offer enough energy to power comparable shields and weapons to the Federation systems. Their size also seems to be rather small. The D'Derdidex core we saw was much smaller then the Galaxy class core.

Sorry Alyeska, your name slipped my mind

Oh come now, I was just jerking your chain.

Back on topic now..

Any other thoughts?

Cause I was thinking, combine that with the need for a "Borg Killer Ship", and you have a nice small, powerful and convient way to stick dozens and dozens of weapons of a hull the size of a Galaxy or Soverign class, as well as more shields and offensive capability.

Which makes ya wonder if the Romulan power source is both comparable and possibly safer, why hasn't the Federation ever looked along those lines for power generation?

Ghost Rider wrote:Which makes ya wonder if the Romulan power source is both comparable and possibly safer, why hasn't the Federation ever looked along those lines for power generation?

Its entirely possible that the design is beyond their capabilities without a lot of help. The Romulans wasn't really all that open with the Federation until very recently, so its not all that surprising the Federation only has a little theoretical knowledge on the subject.

It should be noted that the Scimitar used 3 warp cores instead of the standard QS. A few possibilities:

1) Using a warp core removes the detectable particles given off by a QS, making the cloak more effective
2) Warp cores are more powerful
3) The Remans, working in the mines, had more access to materials needed to build the warp coes in secret then they did to build a QS core.

Another possiblity

4)- The Writers forgot about the QS all together and didn't do any research
(sorry, I haven't seen Nemesis to know details beyond the basic plotline)

Actually, a low-mass singularity is just as dangerous as a M/AM tank. Under natural circumstances, it will spontaneously evapourate in a burst of gamma radiation, since the surface area of its event horizon is large relative to its mass.

The effect will be similar to a M/AM explosion, albeit much more efficient. In a M/AM explosion, some of the reaction byproducts are relatively harmless particles such as neutrinos, and some of the reaction mass will be blown away without reacting, while a singularity evapouration will consume 100% of the mass of the black hole and produce mostly gamma radiation. I'm not sure about the rate of evapouration, however.

In any case, a catastrophic failure in a Romulan QS power core will be just as destructive as a catastrophic failure in a Federation warp core. It might even be worse. And since the Romulan ship infected by the Iconian virus was about to blow itself to pieces, I'd say it's an unwarranted speculation that Romulan ships must be safer than Fed ships.

So, a Romulan Warp core is probably smaller and more compact then a M/AM reactor, but no more safe.

Hmm, so sticking 10 on a Galaxy Class starship to power the shields and weapons may not be a good idea.

Unless of course the Romulans have found a way to deal with the "blows up into Gamma Radiation" problem...

Actually, that begs the question, since the Romulan core is "artifical", does that mean they can shut it down when they detect it about to blow apart into Gamma Radiation, then start it up again safely later.

Insuffiencent info. Darn, and I have a good idea for a starship weapon. Sure, i stole it from the Vong, but still....

The Romulan QS cores may also explain some of their strange design decisions, or they may be the result of their design decisions. It's possible that warp cores are better, but that the Romulan lack of volume has made them convert to the smaller QS, or it may be that the Romulan QS forces them to go with a smaller volume (perhaps it cannot sustain enough power to send a large-mass object through high-warp speeds for a long time, though it can deliver short bursts of very large power output?). Of the two, I think the latter is more likely.

I would say that the decision between QS and warp-cores is a matter of trade-offs. I would expect the difference is that the warp-core provides a more massive vessel with a larger range (explaining the Scimitar's use of warp-cores, instead of QS, and explaining why most of the Romulan defensive fleet uses QS), but delivers greater power during combat and other high-stress times (also explaining the apparent edge that Romulan ships have over comparably-massive and classed UFP and Klingon designs).

My opinion (which is about as lay as you can get) is that a Singularity would be able to provide more power then a M/A-M reactor.

Jeremy wrote:My opinion (which is about as lay as you can get) is that a Singularity would be able to provide more power then a M/A-M reactor.

Then, why would the Scimitar use three warp cores instead of QS reactors?

I had a theory QS were more powerful, thus forcing the Federation to build more powerful but dangerous WCs...

I tend to agree with you GAT

It would also explain why TOS series reactors were so much safer sounding. At the time, they were the best in the galaxy

Then, the Romulans figure out QS reactors, and Starfleet freaks.

I think the weakness of QS reactors is that they can not match the peak performance of warp cores. Notice the TNG episode "Tin Man" in which Romulan ships wreck their engines trying to match Enterprise's performance. That would seem to indicate that their QS engines can not produce as high a maximum output. As DW has mentioned, QS systems are likely more efficient to low to medium performance. However, if they could not match a maxed-out warp core, that would put them at a disadvantage during a pitched battle. That would explain the Scimitar's warp cores. Previous Romulan warships were designed for cruising, while the Scimitar was built exclusively for battle.

Then, why would the Scimitar use three warp cores instead of QS reactors?

Perhaps it was beyond their reach? Ender put up a few good theories:

It should be noted that the Scimitar used 3 warp cores instead of the standard QS. A few possibilities:

1) Using a warp core removes the detectable particles given off by a QS, making the cloak more effective
2) Warp cores are more powerful
3) The Remans, working in the mines, had more access to materials needed to build the warp coes in secret then they did to build a QS core.

Notice the TNG episode "Tin Man" in which Romulan ships wreck their engines trying to match Enterprise's performance. That would seem to indicate that their QS engines can not produce as high a maximum output.

Are power plants and warp field generators the same thing? Perhaps it is just that the D'Deridex has weaker warp field generators, not that it has a weaker power source. Remember the Romulans MAY have only got warp field technology in TOS so their understanding of the technology may not be as complete as the United Federation of Planets or Klingon Empire.

Master of Ossus wrote:

Jeremy wrote:My opinion (which is about as lay as you can get) is that a Singularity would be able to provide more power then a M/A-M reactor.

Then, why would the Scimitar use three warp cores instead of QS reactors?

Maybe a Warp core provides something that a QS cannot provide in regards to their anti-planet superweapon.

Master of Ossus wrote:Then, why would the Scimitar use three warp cores instead of QS reactors?

In some DS9 episode (can't remember which) the DS9 spots and track the movements of a cloaked Warbird by being able to detect the Quantum Singularity. Maybe the Rommies can't cloak a QSs properly and sice the Scimitar was supposed to be a kind of an uber-stealth ship they used ordinary Warp Cores so that it couldn't be spotted because of a QS onboard.

It could also be that the Romulan/Reman "warp cores" were actually quantum singularities being used to perform the same task as the M/AM reaction chambers in Federation-style warp cores. Basically, the entire purpose of the warp core appears to be to generate gamma radiation, which is then used to generate hydrogen plasma.

That hydrogen plasma is then sent throughout the vessel by means of plasma conduits. The greatest part of the plasma is apparently routed to the warp coils, where it produces the oscillating warp field that provides the classic FTL conveyor belt effect. The remainder is used to power other systems, especially the all-important Starfleet Pension Fund Relief System, also known as the exploding console.

Ultimately, there should be no functional difference between the M/AM and QS systems at the output end: both make the warp plasma that makes the ship go, and thus both are warp cores.

A QS system should be fine as long as the ship carrying it can keep regularly shooting enough matter at the singularity to keep the singularity from going below whatever its critical mass threshold is (and thus catastrophically evaporating). Thus, the Romulans would have simplified logistics, since they would not need to generate antimatter to react with their hydrogen stores, just hydrogen to run over the QS. They'd have to somehow generate the QS, but that would be a one-time investment for their ships.

In fact the QS system could be the explanation for why the Romulans go for big ships: the cost for generating (or possibly prospecting) a QS should be about the same, regardless of ship size, at least until the ship becomse so big that it needs a second QS. That way, it would make sense for the Romulans to build the majority of their ships as big as possible. Sublight shuttlecraft and other small vessels capable of getting by on fusion power would obviously be exceptions to that.

Reliance on the QS system might even be considered a sign of Romulan industrial weakness. The Romulan infrastructure may be unable to support the countless large antimatter generation facilities that large-scale use of M/AM warp drives would require. Of course, that would mean the Romulan Star Empire is a kind of paper tiger, employing shortcuts to try to keep up with the Federation or at least pretend to do so.

Unfortunately, the Romulans use of a QS can't really be used as a measure of there industrial capacity.

At one time, I believe they used the standard anti-matter reactor.

I base this on the fact that Data and Georgi didn't know, or at least didn't appear to know, that the Romulans where using a QS as a power source. Sure, Data is not the best walking encyclopedia there is, but you'd think they'd have had enough brain power to look something like that up when they decided to go check out the engineering section so they had an idea of what to look for.

If anything, its show's a strength of the romulans if it works as the Patrick Ogaard (the previous poster) suggested. They don't need AM production facilities. They can put that effort into other things, like research.