Officially sanctioned illegal research

Enola Straight · Post by **Enola Straight** » 2003-05-30 10:32pm

Due to Kahn Noonian Singh, humanity and the UFP has passed laws forbidding the use of genetic engineering to "improve the species" or some such.

Yet genetically modified children bred at Darwin Station has telepathy, telekenisis, and an immune system which can broadcast antibodies.

How was this allowed?

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-05-30 10:40pm

I chalk this one up to nobody paying any attention when writing episodes. This was on last night, no? I saw this one too and thought the same thing.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-05-30 10:59pm

Actually, it's highly regulated.

For example, in the episode Dr. Bashir's engineering was revealed on DS9, it was discussed how it was legal only if the child to be altered had a genetic problem of some sort.

This probably means (going by modern Genetic knowledge), to elminate stuff like Alzhemers, or to correct bad DNA combinations from parents that result in low IQ's or some such.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-05-30 11:36pm

Solauren wrote:Actually, it's highly regulated.

For example, in the episode Dr. Bashir's engineering was revealed on DS9, it was discussed how it was legal only if the child to be altered had a genetic problem of some sort.

This probably means (going by modern Genetic knowledge), to elminate stuff like Alzhemers, or to correct bad DNA combinations from parents that result in low IQ's or some such.

Then why was Bashir's GE illegal? He had low IQ so that by that reasoning it would have been legal what his parents did to him.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-05-30 11:48pm

Because they didn't go through the system. To me, it seemed like they got busted for going about it illegally, not that it was illegal in of itself to make there kid smarter.

His problem just seemed to be he was a stupid kid, not had some health problem. You have to remember, he was like 4 - 5 when they did it.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-05-31 12:08am

Solauren wrote:Actually, it's highly regulated.

For example, in the episode Dr. Bashir's engineering was revealed on DS9, it was discussed how it was legal only if the child to be altered had a genetic problem of some sort.

This probably means (going by modern Genetic knowledge), to elminate stuff like Alzhemers, or to correct bad DNA combinations from parents that result in low IQ's or some such.

That does not sound like the kind of research that was going on at the Darwin Station. It appeared to me that they were breeding super children.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-06-02 08:23am

TrailerParkJawa wrote: That does not sound like the kind of research that was going on at the Darwin Station. It appeared to me that they were breeding super children.

The lady in charge of the station told picard that these children were the future of humanity. Apparently the federation was seeking ways of improving itself. They also realized the dangers involved as darwin station was quarintined from the outside.

The federation was willing to continue the work of improving the human race despite any risks involved. Even after the incident involving the childrens antibody turning common cold into a deadly virus the station was not shut down. It appears that eventualy the federation would find a way to integrate these children into society and after a long time the new superior humans will replace homo sapiens.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-06-02 09:35am

The federation was willing to continue the work of improving the human race despite any risks involved. Even after the incident involving the childrens antibody turning common cold into a deadly virus the station was not shut down. It appears that eventualy the federation would find a way to integrate these children into society and after a long time the new superior humans will replace homo sapiens.

Ah...they search for the new, better, superior humans, who will rule to "normal" ones...

I heard that a govenment in central Europe in the 1930's/40's tried that with very, very brachial and primitive methods, but the intention was the same. Seems that some never learn......

It also reminds me of the arrogant Psi-Corps in B5, whose members thought of themselves as superior humans to rule and finally replace the "normal" ones......

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2003-06-02 10:32am

evilcat4000 wrote:
TrailerParkJawa wrote: That does not sound like the kind of research that was going on at the Darwin Station. It appeared to me that they were breeding super children.
The lady in charge of the station told picard that these children were the future of humanity. Apparently the federation was seeking ways of improving itself. They also realized the dangers involved as darwin station was quarintined from the outside.

The federation was willing to continue the work of improving the human race despite any risks involved. Even after the incident involving the childrens antibody turning common cold into a deadly virus the station was not shut down. It appears that eventualy the federation would find a way to integrate these children into society and after a long time the new superior humans will replace homo sapiens.

The problem is that the superduper humans offer no tangible advantages.

So they have finely controllable telekinesis. Then what's the point of breeding them with arms and hands? Or legs? A levitating torso with a big giant head on top would be more efficient. Or just building a small, product-improved, easily portable version of Wesley Crusher's infamous tractor/pressor beam.

So they have full two way telepathy? Then what's the point of bothering with vocal apparatus? And why would you want to be able to listen in on the stream-of-consciousness blather of others, or find out that half the people around you have gross thoughts and the other half has practically no thoughts? Why not just buy a communicator, send email, use a comm panel or viewscreen, write a letter, or just plain talk to someone? You're also less likely to have your brain turned inside out by some alien supertelepath.

So they have active immune systems? They have immune systems that actually permeate their surroundings with active immune system cells that then offensively attack/genetically modify/neutralize perceived pathogens? How stupid is that? How about just providing for a more robust regular immune system, one that doesn't turn you into a walking biowarfare unit?

Superintelligence? How about teaching the Federation humans how to use the intelligence they've got? There's plenty of room for development there without adding all manner of imponderables likely to produce a pack of mixed nuts like the idiot geniuses Bashir ended up dealing with.

Superstrength? Perceptible advantages: you are now prime slave material for a low-tech world looking for cheap, high-capacity stevedores; you can now easily kill a man with your bare hands, unless he disintegrates you first with his phaser.

That does not appear to be a recipe for the improvement of humanity. More like multiple dead ends pursued simultaneously.

Now a longer lifespan and a more robust immune system, plus resistance to cancers and degenerative problems, those would be worthwhile genetic improvements, ones everyone would be lining up to get for their kids (and for themselves if possible).

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2003-06-02 10:40am

Tribun wrote:
The federation was willing to continue the work of improving the human race despite any risks involved. Even after the incident involving the childrens antibody turning common cold into a deadly virus the station was not shut down. It appears that eventualy the federation would find a way to integrate these children into society and after a long time the new superior humans will replace homo sapiens.
Ah...they search for the new, better, superior humans, who will rule to "normal" ones...

I heard that a govenment in central Europe in the 1930's/40's tried that with very, very brachial and primitive methods, but the intention was the same. Seems that some never learn......

It also reminds me of the arrogant Psi-Corps in B5, whose members thought of themselves as superior humans to rule and finally replace the "normal" ones......

Ah, but the Psi-Corps folks called normal people "mundanes," the way that science fiction fans, especially the convention-going sorts, often refer to normal people as mundanes. (Ditto for fantasy fans, of course.) I think the good JMS was poking a little fun at SF fans by using that particular term. Just like Alfred Bester is the name of the author of "The Demolished Man," the novel that directly inspired the Psi-Corps and P (T in The Demolished Man) numerical rating system for telepaths.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-06-02 10:46am

Patric, in The Eugenics War: Part 1, we were told why gentic engineering was useful. The Federation is surrounded by many physically superior races, namely the Romulans, Gorn, Klingons, ect., so the uses of genetics could, in theory, give the Federation a tactial advantage on the battlefield and it could be used in phy. warfare. To know your enemy is stronger, faster, or has physic abilities could undermine morale.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-06-02 11:16am

Also, remember what happend to Lt. Barclay after that probe zapped him in a TNG episode.

Imagine finding a way to improve brainpower that much via genetics. That would have HUGE advantages, provided you could maintain the chain of command (likely, that was caused by the pogramming from the probe)

As for people shreding the other advantages.

Arms, Legs and Vocals cords still have advantages.
2 way telepathy in SCI-FI (and PSI-FI) generally works person to person. You'd still need vocal cords to speed to machines and groups of people. examples include Betazoids and that species that didn't have a language until contacted by Starfleet/the Federation

Telekinetics has definate advantages ya know. Range over hands is one of them. However, hands have there advantages too. TK might be tiring after a while compared to TK. It would be better to use the TK as a weapon to toss stuff at people, or move objects or help move objects.

I agree, the active, agressive, turn them into a biological warfare unit was a BAD idea. However a more agressive internal only one and slower aging after puperty is not.

If you are going to breed superhumans, I'd go for
Telepathy, Telekinetics, Ferrokinetics (i.e Magneto), enchanced immune systems, enchanced mental and physical abilities (strength, speed, stamia) and so forth. Plus I'd go over old comics for ideas, plus if I encountered a new life form with new Psi-abilities, I'd be trying to duplicate them (i.e TK Flight, Biological Cloaking, etc)

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2003-06-02 11:46am

Admiral Johnason wrote:Patric, in The Eugenics War: Part 1, we were told why gentic engineering was useful. The Federation is surrounded by many physically superior races, namely the Romulans, Gorn, Klingons, ect., so the uses of genetics could, in theory, give the Federation a tactial advantage on the battlefield and it could be used in phy. warfare. To know your enemy is stronger, faster, or has physic abilities could undermine morale.

The problem, though, is that physical strength beyond that needed to carry one's gear and stick a bayonet or knife in someone is good primarily in arm wrestling contests. The physically strong Klingons and Gorn are not noticeably phaserproof, the supposedly faster and better coordinated Romulans are marksman as ineffective as Federation humans, and the psychic abilities of the Romulans and others are about worthless in combat. It also does not seem that the photographic memories of Cardassians actually make them smarter or more effective soldiers.

Human strength is, per canon Trek, usually adequate to deal with Klingons in close combat, Romulans never seem to show the excessive strength of their Vulcan cousins, and anyone wrestling with Gorn is an idiot and deserves to die.

The best morale boosters on the battlefield are having excellent training, competent leadership, good equipment and lots of competent friendly troops in support, and knowing that you're fighting the good fight (as in, you're on the right side).

That the Federation's troops keep coming out on top besides having exactly one of the above says a lot about how pathetic the supposedly superior genetic qualities of the other species are in terms of providing actual battlefield advantages.

Genetic engineering has its obvious uses: better health and longer life. Enabling someone to bench press a runabout or carry on meaningful mind-to-mind conversations with Cardassian voles seems like a pointless waste in comparison.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-06-02 11:53am

You really don't see any good coming from Physonics!? You really need to read some of th Ultimate X-Men comics. Many physic powers have battlefield potential. For expamle, mental dominatin could disable critical officers in battle. Telpathy could allow a spy to steal increadible amounts of revelant data. ESP could give a ship an increadible edge over another ship. Telkentics could bring an end to the need of heavy weapons. The list goes on...

Now yes, there are drawbacks and dangers. Your people in the feild could go rouge like in "Where No Man Has Gone Before."

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-06-02 01:15pm

Solauren wrote:Because they didn't go through the system. To me, it seemed like they got busted for going about it illegally, not that it was illegal in of itself to make there kid smarter.

His problem just seemed to be he was a stupid kid, not had some health problem. You have to remember, he was like 4 - 5 when they did it.

Yeah. Like you said, he had low IQ. So if it was legal, then why didn't they just go through the system.

And if I remember, the first solution was to make him lose his license and some other stuff.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-06-02 02:06pm

Here are some good examples of what you can do with Genetic Enhancement (as portrayed in Star Trek)

The Vorta: Immune to most poisons, have a TK energy weapon, so they are never unarmed. Sure it's a SLOW weapon, but that's probably deliberate
The Jem'ha'dar: Capable of turning invisibile. Tell me that doesn't have an advantage.

Also, imagine these powers from GE on the battle field
Ability to bench press 50 times your own weight (I think Ants can do something that)
Klingon throws bunch at you: You catch it, crush his hand, and throw him back a few dozen meters, where he breaks his back from the impact. You then start tossing big rocks at his friends, rather fast, and with good accuracy (otherwise don't).

Enchanced Reflexes: Klingon swings Battle'h, you dodge it and drill him before he realises he missed. Klingon fires blaster, you might be able to dodge it

Enchanced Memory: "What do you mean I'm a spy? Do you see a datapad on me?"

Telepathy: So many variants on that. Here are some sub-examples
Mind Control: (We saw Spock do that in the TOS). Make people do what you want, i'e drop there shields or weapons, or blast there friends.
Mind Probing: Sir, they are planning to attack in a week
Sense other beings: Sir, there's 10 klingons behind those trees

Dense materials as skin (ala an oyster)

What about a poisonous bite? Or the ability to spite toxic venom a few yards (like some kinda of snake), or the ability to fire high strength, high tension "webbing" from our bodies (ala Spiderman)

Whatabout enchanced healing?

Weird Ass powers (i.e X-men) that are semi-feasible
Ferrokinetics: Go watch the X-men movies. Magnetio is what I call a Ferrokinetic

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2003-06-02 02:22pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:You really don't see any good coming from Physonics!? You really need to read some of th Ultimate X-Men comics. Many physic powers have battlefield potential. For expamle, mental dominatin could disable critical officers in battle. Telpathy could allow a spy to steal increadible amounts of revelant data. ESP could give a ship an increadible edge over another ship. Telkentics could bring an end to the need of heavy weapons. The list goes on...

Now yes, there are drawbacks and dangers. Your people in the feild could go rouge like in "Where No Man Has Gone Before."

The thing is that it still seems altogether too much like trying to pull nails using a ten-ton fusion-powered quantum flux-enhanced ferritically modulated tractor beam. As opposed to using a claw hammer or pliers.

One of the inevitable results of reliance on psychic powers, if such could -- as Star Trek canon indicates they can be in the Trek setting -- be provided through genetic manipulation, is the psychic arms race. If the enemy can be immobilized or tossed about or spied upon by means of your side's psychics, the enemy will waste no time in acquiring those same assets and capabilities. Purposefully developed psychic powers might win one battle, one campaign, or even one entire war, but after that everyone still standing will be scrambling to acquire usable psychics.

Given the easy availability of what amounts to kitchen sink cloning in Trek (as in DS9's A Man Alone), just one psychic POW could provide suitable initial breeding stock. Battalions of suitably mentally conditioned psychic troops would then be deployed against your forces in short order.

There is also the question of how common and powerful those artificially developed powers will be. If those factors are like those of typical comic book worlds, the psychics will be grossly outnumbered by "normals" and will thus be tempting priority targets. If you only have one Cyclops, one Storm, or one Magneto, can you afford to risk them in combat?

If massive psychic powers become common, how relevant do the "normals" and technology remain? If your psychic warpers can travel at warp 9.9 just by the powers of their mind and can take hundreds of people with them, why build starships? If your pyros can blast starships apart in an instant with psychically generated plasma blasts, why build conventional starship or planetary defense weapons? And so forth. It might then be seen as kinder to just sterilize the normals or perhaps to take a more proactive stance. It's a bad idea to genetically engineer oneself into obsolescence.

If psychic powers remain rare and low-powered, like those of Deanna Troi, what real use are they except as curiosities? What Troi could detect any reasonably intelligent and observant captain should have been able to figure out in about a half second. And a trained psychologist or psychiatrist would not have so mishandled all the grief, anxiety and abandonment cases that Troi bungled. The one telepath from B5, the addled fellow who pelted the security guys and psi hounds with thrown bric-a-brac, did nothing a good baseball pitcher with a bushel basket of baseballs could not have done, or just one firefighter with a fire hose.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-06-02 03:21pm

First, I don't think we've seen many aliens with the level of power you have indicated, so there is no DNA example to work with.

I mean, Okay, the Traveller could make the ship due something like Warp 9.99999999+, but it was very draining on him, and nearly killed him.

Besides a few superbeings, I don't recall anyone capable of teleporting across the Stars, so starships would still be needed. Heck, I can't even recall true teleportation of any kind (I could be wrong).

If you go be REASONABLE powers, not uber powers (i.e Mutants/Engineered beings capable of hurling plasma blasts capable of blowing up an orbiting starship), they could be quite useful.

A good comparison might be normal Jean Grey vs Phoniex Jean Grey
Phoniex Jean Grey is near god like in power. I haven't seen any of the Phoniex sage comics, but in the cartoon I saw, she blow up a star by herself using her own psychic powers. That's going overboard if you are doing it by genetic engineering.

However, normal Jean Grey (normal power level for her anyway) has lots of advantages. We have seen across the comics, cartoon and movie the ability to fly (abiet limited), hurl objects around, read minds, etc.

She had advantages over normal people. 3000 of her on the battle field would be very dangerous.

Or what about, if it's possible, giving all your forces Cyclops's, Bishops and Havoc's combined powers? Imagine that. Klingon fires blaster, trooper absorbs energy and tosses it back at him. Klingon blow up and wakse up in Stovakor, wondering how the alien caught the blaster bolt and tossed it back.

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2003-06-02 03:34pm

Solauren wrote:Here are some good examples of what you can do with Genetic Enhancement (as portrayed in Star Trek)

The Vorta: Immune to most poisons, have a TK energy weapon, so they are never unarmed. Sure it's a SLOW weapon, but that's probably deliberate
The Jem'ha'dar: Capable of turning invisibile. Tell me that doesn't have an advantage.

Also, imagine these powers from GE on the battle field
Ability to bench press 50 times your own weight (I think Ants can do something that)
Klingon throws bunch at you: You catch it, crush his hand, and throw him back a few dozen meters, where he breaks his back from the impact. You then start tossing big rocks at his friends, rather fast, and with good accuracy (otherwise don't).

Enchanced Reflexes: Klingon swings Battle'h, you dodge it and drill him before he realises he missed. Klingon fires blaster, you might be able to dodge it

Enchanced Memory: "What do you mean I'm a spy? Do you see a datapad on me?"

Telepathy: So many variants on that. Here are some sub-examples
Mind Control: (We saw Spock do that in the TOS). Make people do what you want, i'e drop there shields or weapons, or blast there friends.
Mind Probing: Sir, they are planning to attack in a week
Sense other beings: Sir, there's 10 klingons behind those trees

Dense materials as skin (ala an oyster)

What about a poisonous bite? Or the ability to spite toxic venom a few yards (like some kinda of snake), or the ability to fire high strength, high tension "webbing" from our bodies (ala Spiderman)

Whatabout enchanced healing?

Weird Ass powers (i.e X-men) that are semi-feasible
Ferrokinetics: Go watch the X-men movies. Magnetio is what I call a Ferrokinetic

Well, let's see (and be curmudgeonly

):

The Vorta: also so near-sighted as to be incapable of using ranged weapons, genetically imprinted for loyalty to and worship of the Founders, and lacking any sense of aesthetic appreciation. Also, only one Vorta ever displayed the TK ability, even though other Vorta would have benefited from using it (and the Alpha Quadrant technologies include psionic dampers that render the wearer's powers unusable). The TK Vorta might have been a custom design, or perhaps just used a technological toy to simulate the TK effect.

The Jem'hadar: can only turn invisible if they're well supplied with White, and their invisibility is hardly much better than a decent form of conventional camouflage. Modern work on active camouflage systems that match themselves automatically to the background would provide the same effect in a uniform that can be taken on and off at will. Also, Jem'hadar cloaking does nothing major against IR sensors, scent tracking, motion detectors or tripwires.

The physiological modifications needed to produce 50 times normal human strength (let's assume this means a hefty 100 kg human can lift up to 5 tons, or the equivalent of a small truck) would be extreme. It might be more effective to just design an exoskeleton battle suit with those abilities. There's also the fact that you might run into a Klingon modified to have 50 times normal Klingon strength, and thus get the short end of that stick.

Enhanced reflexes: training. Just having a fast reaction speed does not mean that one will do the right thing unless trained to do so.

Enhanced memory: More common than you might think. Patrick Stewart, like many professional actors, stage actors in particular, has it already. There are also similar cases in history. One that I am reminded of is an account of an English boy from about 250 years ago who got caught up in a fracas that had him transfer from an English merchantman to a Spanish man-o-war to an English man-o-war. To prove to the English captain that he was indeed English, the boy recited the entire text of the King James Bible from memory, and then recited several selected pages that he had memorized backwards. It's not a huge enhancement, and training can further enhance those abilities. An intensively trained individual that started with a good ability to memorize data or images can do all that without genetic enhancement.

Mind control: fast talking, the art of BS, portable mind control rays (the tech answer), faking a seizure

Mind probe: spies, ELINT, guys with syringes

Sense others: helmet with built-in motion trackers, IR vision, low light enhancement, scent sensors (Klingons don't bathe much and are a mite whiffy, per canon)

Dense materials embedded in the skin: body armor is more practical and can be taken off, organically deposited dermal armor will have to re-grow if it's broken, and is unlikely to be as good as factory-made stuff.

The poison bite or spittle, or the webbing thing, are all going to be useful only in the classic secret agent or assassin scenarios. In that case, of course, they can actually prove a liability. The presence of an organic assassination or intrusion system, one that is a permanent part of one's physiology right down to the genetic level, removes plausible deniability and will make a spy or assassin easy to pick out if genetic scans are commonly used for security.

For enhanced healing, pack a medical kit with a dermal regenerator and a hypospray loaded with appropriate military drug cocktails. Or build the whole thing into your powered exoskeleton along with a small biomonitor computer that dispenses drugs as needed.

Ferrokinetics: break a superconducting magnet out of ship's stores and integrate it into a portable tractor beam emitter using quantum transduction involving a large rubber band and a frane valve… Actually, what happens with Magneto when Ensign Soontobedead activates an SCM near Magneto? Magneto's own pronounced magnetic fields might prove more vulnerable to the SCM's effects than the hemoglobin in Ensign Soontobedead's red blood cells.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-06-02 08:30pm

Oh, I'm not saying you can't do it all with tech (or possibly with tech).

Which is cheaper however, making it so all your citizens have those powers in a way that costs you nothing and reproduces with them?

I'd do the genetic stuff, then build the suits to REALLY boast them up

And I was using the Vorta and JEm'ha'dar as examples. The weakness were buiilt into them to make them controllable by the founders. Imagine a human with all those traits, and none of the faults.

And if your entire race had those powers, plausiable deniablity is gone, but you can go "hey, who says it was ME? We can all do that". Kinda like a Vulcan neck pinch. Prove WHICH vulcan did it

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2003-06-02 08:33pm

Solauren wrote:Oh, I'm not saying you can't do it all with tech (or possibly with tech).

Which is cheaper however, making it so all your citizens have those powers in a way that costs you nothing and reproduces with them?

I'd do the genetic stuff, then build the suits to REALLY boast them up

And I was using the Vorta and JEm'ha'dar as examples. The weakness were buiilt into them to make them controllable by the founders. Imagine a human with all those traits, and none of the faults.

And if your entire race had those powers, plausiable deniablity is gone, but you can go "hey, who says it was ME? We can all do that". Kinda like a Vulcan neck pinch. Prove WHICH vulcan did it

Good enough.

Although, what you've done then is produce a new subspecies and quite possibly a new species, something that would make me a bit nervous.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-06-03 10:36am

Why?

According to Star Trek genetics, you can mutate a whole person in a few days. (numerous references, the best one is when Laforge turned into the UV wussy aliens)

Get the 'formula" right then release it as a virus into your population, and now its not a new species, its a new, jump-started evolutionary stage.

Or make it mandatory to get during medical exams, etc etc etc.

Give it a few months, and your entire population now have all the good, useful, controlled powers of the X-Men/Mutants from the Marvel Universe.

Then go Klingon hunting.

Hey, there's a fight for ya
Colussus vs a Klingon army, swords only
(heck, would disrupters even hurt Colussus?)

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2003-06-03 11:07am

Solauren wrote:Why?

According to Star Trek genetics, you can mutate a whole person in a few days. (numerous references, the best one is when Laforge turned into the UV wussy aliens)

Get the 'formula" right then release it as a virus into your population, and now its not a new species, its a new, jump-started evolutionary stage.

Or make it mandatory to get during medical exams, etc etc etc.

Give it a few months, and your entire population now have all the good, useful, controlled powers of the X-Men/Mutants from the Marvel Universe.

Then go Klingon hunting.

Hey, there's a fight for ya
Colussus vs a Klingon army, swords only
(heck, would disrupters even hurt Colussus?)

Just to be contrary about it...

You'd have to bypass the immune systems of your entire population. Assuming humans in the Federation, that could reasonably be in the tens of billions. And half the humanoid species of the galaxy apparently share enough genetic commonality to infect each other with flu or cold viruses, so likely as not there will be a quadrant-wide superpower virus pandemic.

And, inevitably, there will be bad reactions and fatalities. Even a .0001 mortality rate from the virus would be a bad, bad thing to those affected.

Of course, you also have to do an end run around basic civil rights. After all, you're not vaccinating people (and thus the general population) against an infectious disease. You are changing the genetic coding of your population, in effect turning them into genetically different people. Releasing what is effectively a bioweapon into your general population is probably never a good idea. The virus might also mutate into something unpleasant at some point.

Then there is the problem of control. We're well adapted to dealing with people having super powers like opposable thumbs or the ability to fly aircraft. If the entire population has access to effectively superhuman powers you need either draconian control of the actions and thoughts of all ciitzens at all times and in all places, or you need absolutely morally pure and incorruptible citizens with white wings, halos and glowing white robes.

Since Klingons can breed with humans (with some assistance), there has to be enough genetic commonality between them to allow for the potential of the superhero virus jumping the species gap. Shortly after your first battle with the Klingons, some of them get sick, some die, others become mad, twisted monsters, and the rest acquire spiffy superpowers. And then you've got real trouble.

Klingons with eye beams, tritanium skin, intestines that double as warp coils, etc. And then you've got problems.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-06-04 01:04pm

Two words, covert ops. Any effect created by GE can probably be duplicated more easily by a tool, but it may not be possible to smuggle said tool past the security at *fill-in-the-blank*. Especially the exoskeleton battle suit when you are posing as the janitor.

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2003-06-04 02:08pm

consequences wrote:Two words, covert ops. Any effect created by GE can probably be duplicated more easily by a tool, but it may not be possible to smuggle said tool past the security at *fill-in-the-blank*. Especially the exoskeleton battle suit when you are posing as the janitor.

That's certainly a valid option.

As long as the security does not use genetic and/or scent scanners that will pick up on the modifications. For the general population, or even for large units of regular troops, tools are almost certainly a better choice.