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First, I've got to say that Michael Westmore is one of the greatest makeup men working today. That said, I have been extremely disappointed with the crappy makeups in Trek lately.

Why do ALL Vulcans/Romulans have that STUPID "mop-top" haircut? They ALL LOOK THE SAME!! What happened to IDIC? In TOS, Sarek didn't have Spock's haircut. Surak and Stonn didn't have Spock's EXACT haircut. The Romulan commander in "The Enterprise Incident" didn'tt have the Beatles look. And why do all the friggin' Klingons look exactly the same? Do they ALL have to wear their hair the exact same way? Do the Hell's Angels have to look exactly the same? Nope. TNG and most of DS9 had nothing but forehead pieces and nose ridges to denote an "alien", with hardly ANY use of "alien looking" contact lenses. Come on!

Again, this isn't necessarily the fault of the makeup artist. The Makeup Artist obeys what the producers want the aliens to look like. Sometimes, it has to do with actors who refuse to have a large portion of their face covered by prosthetics, because they feel they can't "emote" through it.

Now in the last few seasons of DS9, we saw some very good use of DIVERSE Klingons and Romulans. One episode especially can be singled out is "Soldiers Of The Empire". This had Klingons with short hair, Klingons with no beards, some personal accessories to their uniforms, etc.

The Romulans were also very well done in the final seasons. In the episode where Garak blows up the Romulan commander to convince the Romulans to join the fight against the Jem Hadar, the Romulan had a much smaller forehead piece than the TNG Romulans, which looked like som of the first use of silicone prosthetics instead of immoble foam latex. His hair was also very thinned out, and NOT the friggin mop-top crap.

I've always thought that new forehead piece for Romulans introduced in TNG was the stupidest idea ever. It prevented any of the Romulans from using their slanted eyebrows expressively like Spock (and TOS Romulans) did.

Anyone know if Westmore was in charge of makeup on DS9 for the final two-three seasons?

The Romulans have been bothering me especially lately. They were kind of cool in TOS (and the women were hot) but in TNG on they mostly looked like crap. Uniforms & the angular "Moe" cut were the worst.

The last season or so of DS9 did show an improvement in them. The uniform they had was much better than the mega-shoulderpadded thing they'd been wearing. The Nemesis uniforms were okay, kind of a nod to TOS Romulan uniforms but I liked the grey ones from the end of DS9 better. Not that they couldn't have multiple types of uniforms.

I don't like the Romulans with the forehead appliance. How can Spock seriously be covertly on Romulus when Vulcans clearly look different than
Romulans. Does he just walk around with his hood up all the time? Considering the Dominon war and the threat of real infiltration I would hope that Romulan security isn't that pathetic.

Okay, there might have been some divergent evolution in the few thousand since the Romulans split from the Vulcans but somehow I don't think enough people to inhabit a planet (or more) would all develope that same mutation.

In Nemesis I thought that the Romulans looked a little too yellow. It might make more sense since they are supposed to have green blood (do they even bother with that for the Vulcans & Romulans anymore) but I think they over did it just a tad.

Lord Poe wrote: This had Klingons with short hair, Klingons with no beards, some personal accessories to their uniforms, etc.

Actually, in the Voyager episode "Real Life", as part of a holodeck program, we met two Klingon teenagers who appeared quite clean-shaven, although they had an appalling lack of dental hygiejne.

I fear I'll get flamed for this (but meh, who cares?), but I always liked the Cardassian look, and that of the Founders. Particularly when we saw said Founders in their diseased state.

What always strikes me as mad is the length of time it must take to apply such make up, be it for Trek, B5, Wars, or anything. Having to sit still that long! Having to have all that restrictive make up on for hours at a time No thank you!

Probably nothing compared to the time it took to put on the Mystique makeup.

God that must have sucked.

Simon H.Johansen wrote:Actually, in the Voyager episode "Real Life", as part of a holodeck program, we met two Klingon teenagers who appeared quite clean-shaven, although they had an appalling lack of dental hygiejne.

I must have missed that one. I liked the Vulcan makeup on the elder Tuvok trained with as a boy. He looked like he could be Spock's brother. I think he was the Gamemaster originally in "Gamesters of Triskellion"

If you grab X-men 1.5, it details the Mystique makeup job. 8 hours to put on!! I understand that they decreased the time considerably in X2.

I've worked with prosthetics, and depending on where they go, its not that bad. One thing that IS, is casting someone's head. I've seen a few people freak out when we covered their eyes, nose and mouth. Jump out of the chair and pull the alginate off.

A few years ago, we made a guy into Darth Maul using colored liquid latex and a bald cap. It took two hours, but it looked great!

I've yet to try any major Trek makeups. I hate seeing convention photos of Trekkies dressed as Klingons. They go through HOURS making their costume, then they put the makeup on, and not one of them can match the color of the headpiece to the makeup on the rest of their face!

Actually according to The Art of X2, in the first film it started at 10 hours and they got it down to about 6 and a half. For X2 it was about 4 and a half.

neoolong wrote:Actually according to The Art of X2, in the first film it started at 10 hours and they got it down to about 6 and a half. For X2 it was about 4 and a half.

That number on the first film is right, that's what the makeup guy told me when I interviewed him a few years back. Does this new book mention how they shaved it down further this time? The way they went about applying everything was kinda revolutionary the first time through, and I can't imagine how they could have facilitated it any further. (also, is there a writer credited on this ART OF X2 book? Just kinda wondering, cuz a lot of newmarket publications don't list that person.)

It doesn't give a writer exactly. It does say designed and edited by Timothy Shaner though.

It doesn't say how they shortened the process. Though there was an X2 special on Fox before the movie that I think said something about what was new for the makeup.

I think they changed the adhesives and some other things to shorten the application time.

Lord Poe wrote: I must have missed that one. I liked the Vulcan makeup on the elder Tuvok trained with as a boy. He looked like he could be Spock's brother. I think he was the Gamemaster originally in "Gamesters of Triskellion"

Joseph Ruskin. He was also in a couple of DS9 episodes as a cardassian and a klingon.

Tsyroc wrote:I don't like the Romulans with the forehead appliance. How can Spock seriously be covertly on Romulus when Vulcans clearly look different than Romulans. Does he just walk around with his hood up all the time? Considering the Dominon war and the threat of real infiltration I would hope that Romulan security isn't that pathetic.

Well... considering that Sela the Incompetent simply leaves Picard, Spock, and Data all alone in her office with an active computer terminal handy and no guards to watch them, I think we jolly well can assume Romulan security is that pathetic.

Sothis wrote:I fear I'll get flamed for this (but meh, who cares?), but I always liked the Cardassian look, and that of the Founders. Particularly when we saw said Founders in their diseased state.

I always liked the look of the Cardassians, too.

What I didn't like was how they contrasted with the look of the Bajorans.

I mean, here you have one species that they pretty much went all out on, with appliances for most of the face and neck and skin colour. Then there's the other species where all they do is give them a tiny appliance for the nose ridge. It makes it look like they put almost zero effort into their design.

Now, I'm not saying that the Bajorans should have been as the Cardassians or the Ferrengi or such (as it would have been much too cost prohibitive), but it would have been nice if they had done at least something more...

Tsyroc wrote:In Nemesis I thought that the Romulans looked a little too yellow. It might make more sense since they are supposed to have green blood (do they even bother with that for the Vulcans & Romulans anymore) but I think they over did it just a tad.

They still have green blood. I think the last Romulan/Vulcan to bleed onscreen was in Generations, and there was a Romulan body covered in green blood.

Baron Mordo wrote:

Lord Poe wrote: I must have missed that one. I liked the Vulcan makeup on the elder Tuvok trained with as a boy. He looked like he could be Spock's brother. I think he was the Gamemaster originally in "Gamesters of Triskellion"

Joseph Ruskin. He was also in a couple of DS9 episodes as a cardassian and a klingon.

They must really like him -- they also dropped him in on the Son'a flagship for that reshot bit at the end of INSURRECTION ... he's the guy that exchanges lines with Worf while freaking in front of the viewscreen when E-E comes straight at them en route to Picard on the collector.