Nemesis Battle Group revisited.

[Anarchist Bunny]

I don't know why, but what ships where in the Nemesis battle group was something I always wanted to figure out and after thinking and researching about it again I've got the closest list so far.

USS Intrepid - Intrepid Class(not an Excelsior model due to it's regestry number)

USS Valiant - Unknown. There was a defiant class Valiant that was destroyed, but the Registry is to high for any other ship. A couple guesses could be Soverign(never see a Sov's Registry number) or a full production Prometheus(the prototype has a NX registry) or a completely new ship.

USS Galaxy - Galaxy heavily damaged in Domion War IIRC, probly repaired to a war refit.

USS Aires - Renaissance, this one was a bitch but I finally got it. Astrometrics on the E-E fucking mispelled it's name, It's the USS Aries, the registry confirms this.

USS Nova - Unknown, The equinox has a 72000 registry, and the Nova has a 73000, so it's not a early Nova-Class, the closest it comes to is a Cheyenne or a Runnabout, but is unlikely to be either.

USS Hood - Excelsior

USS Archer - Excelsior

[Alyeska]

FYI, the USS Galaxy was already a War Galaxy model, that is how it surived Chintoka to begin with. As to the Nova, that is most likely a Nova class. Lead ships to a new class do not always have similar NCC numbers.

Anyway, this battlegroup would not have done the Enterprise any good. The calculations I made indicate the Scimitar took HEAVY fire from the Enterprise as it is and the Scimitat could bitchslap the ships of Omega group with ease.

[Death from the Sea]

USS Aires - Renaissance, this one was a bitch but I finally got it. Astrometrics on the E-E fucking mispelled it's name, It's the USS Aries, the registry confirms this.

There is a Renaissance class? what does it it look like?

[Anarchist Bunny]

USS Aires - Renaissance, this one was a bitch but I finally got it. Astrometrics on the E-E fucking mispelled it's name, It's the USS Aries, the registry confirms this.

There is a Renaissance class? what does it it look like?

Ex Astris Scienta doesn't have a picture of it, and only info on it is that it doesn't have any form of emergency escape craft and is weaker than a Galaxy Class.

[Jadeite]

Ex Astris Scienta doesn't have a picture of it, and only info on it is that it doesn't have any form of emergency escape craft and is weaker than a Galaxy Class.

Sucks to be its crew then, more so then on other Fed ships.

[Kerneth]

So, against the Scimitar, they sent a pair of old, outdated Excelsiors and a starship that doesn't have any escape pods.

...Does anyone else see a problem with this?

[Admiral Johnason]

So, against the Scimitar, they sent a pair of old, outdated Excelsiors and a starship that doesn't have any escape pods.

...Does anyone else see a problem with this?

There is a word I am thinking off... upgrades! Think you moron.

[Kerneth]

Do you recall the super-uber-upgraded Lakota Excelsior that got the shit kicked out of it, or if you want to interpret the fight generously, "fought to a standstill" by a lone Defiant? And that the cost of the upgrade was on par with the cost of an entirely new vessel?

Obviously even an upgraded and heavily-refit Excelsior is still a less-than-awesome combatant by "modern" standards. Sending a pair of Excelsiors that may or may not have been upgraded to the Lakota standard--and probably weren't, given that from what I've heard on this forum Starfleet had written off that program as cost-prohibitive--up against the Scimitar is insane. Especially given that in the rest of that group the only "modern" warship is the single war-refit Galaxy and whatever the Valiant is; could be a Sovereign, could be a Saber or a Steamrunner, there's no way of knowing. The Nova class is a science vessel and the Intrepid, while a decent warship, is at best a battlecruiser and is meant to be a ship of exploration not warfare. Just pray that Intrepid isn't being commanded by a science officer.

[Admiral Johnason]

Do you recall the super-uber-upgraded Lakota Excelsior that got the shit kicked out of it, or if you want to interpret the fight generously, "fought to a standstill" by a lone Defiant? And that the cost of the upgrade was on par with the cost of an entirely new vessel?

Then why did the Defiant receive so much damage that they considered cloaking and running?

[Alyeska]

Do you recall the super-uber-upgraded Lakota Excelsior that got the shit kicked out of it, or if you want to interpret the fight generously, "fought to a standstill" by a lone Defiant? And that the cost of the upgrade was on par with the cost of an entirely new vessel?

Then why did the Defiant receive so much damage that they considered cloaking and running?

Because they wanted to avoid fighting the Lakota. Note that the Defiant fired only ONE torpedo and they could have wasted the Lakota. Fact is it was determined both ships having Quantum Torpedoes means that either ship who wished to fire them seriously first would have won. The Defiant had slightly better damage absorbtion but both had relatively equal firepower. Then again the Defiant was presenting new shield aspects to the Lakota and controled parts of the battle.

[Admiral Johnason]

Do you recall the super-uber-upgraded Lakota Excelsior that got the shit kicked out of it, or if you want to interpret the fight generously, "fought to a standstill" by a lone Defiant? And that the cost of the upgrade was on par with the cost of an entirely new vessel?

Then why did the Defiant receive so much damage that they considered cloaking and running?

Because they wanted to avoid fighting the Lakota. Note that the Defiant fired only ONE torpedo and they could have wasted the Lakota. Fact is it was determined both ships having Quantum Torpedoes means that either ship who wished to fire them seriously first would have won. The Defiant had slightly better damage absorbtion but both had relatively equal firepower. Then again the Defiant was presenting new shield aspects to the Lakota and controled parts of the battle.

Then I admit defeat. Sorry about the arguement.

[Alyeska]

Now, in this Nemesis incident the Intrepid, Galaxy, Valiant (probable Defiant) and Nova are most important. The Nova will possibly detect the Scimitar while the other three ships try and lay into the Scimitar.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Valiant (probable Defiant)

I'm not too sure about that myself, The regestry is off for any other ship up to date from the Feds, but that could be because of a serious overhaul of the production of Defiants used up the regestry number inbetween it and the next class(Excelsiors have all sorts of regestries, but they were built for a very long time). I though for a second that it could just be a rebuilt Valiant, or they would of added a Valiant-A or something like that, but the Hood was orginally a Constitution, and Enterprise seems to be the only on to get the lettering.

[HappyTarget]

and Enterprise seems to be the only on to get the lettering.

Agreed. And it's pretty stupid that that's the way it is IMHO, but meh, I'm not TPTB in Trek. If I was, things would be lots different...

[Uraniun235]

Valiant (probable Defiant)

Enterprise seems to be the only on to get the lettering.

Incorrect. "Where Silence Has Lease" lists Yamato's registry as four digits plus letter.

[Alyeska]

Valiant (probable Defiant)

Enterprise seems to be the only on to get the lettering.

Incorrect. "Where Silence Has Lease" lists Yamato's registry as four digits plus letter.

That was a mistake. The registry shown on the Yamato when she was destroyed was completely different.

[Vympel]

Why agonize over the registry numbers anyway? Has anyone demonstrated a rhyme or reason to them? We already know that in terms of the Enterprise, Starfleet keeps old registry numbers no matter what class the ship is- how do we know there isn't a Reliant-C flying around (assuming that name hasn't been struck off out of shame or something).

The Soviet Navy never bothered with rhyme or reason regarding their Pennant numbers, Project numbers, or serial numbers- this was a way to confuse observers- there is still disagreement, even now, as to what ships were built when, for example.

PS What the hell's a Renaissance class?

[TurboPhaser]

Enterprise seems to be the only on to get the lettering.

Incorrect. "Where Silence Has Lease" lists Yamato's registry as four digits plus letter.

That was a mistake. The registry shown on the Yamato when she was destroyed was completely different.

That does not explain why the crew recognized the Yamato with the registry of 'Yadda yadda - E'.

It must of been the registry at that point, but was changed later on.

[Crazedwraith]

how do we know there isn't a Reliant-C flying around (assuming that name hasn't been struck off out of shame or something).

The enterprise is the only ship that seems to keep name AND registry. We have seen two saratoga and they have different registry numbers.

[Alyeska]

Why agonize over the registry numbers anyway? Has anyone demonstrated a rhyme or reason to them? We already know that in terms of the Enterprise, Starfleet keeps old registry numbers no matter what class the ship is- how do we know there isn't a Reliant-C flying around (assuming that name hasn't been struck off out of shame or something).

The Soviet Navy never bothered with rhyme or reason regarding their Pennant numbers, Project numbers, or serial numbers- this was a way to confuse observers- there is still disagreement, even now, as to what ships were built when, for example.

PS What the hell's a Renaissance class?

We already know time and time again that the Enterprise is the only ship to retain the same registry.

Constellation
Defiant
Drake
ENterprise
Excalibur
Exeter
Farragut
Grissom
Hood
Intrepid
Lexington
Potemkin
Prometheus
Saratoga
Yellowstone
Yorktown

All of those ships have had their names repeated twice, some times a 3rd. Only the Enterprise EVER had the same registry, all the others had new NCC numbers every time.

[Alyeska]

Incorrect. "Where Silence Has Lease" lists Yamato's registry as four digits plus letter.

That was a mistake. The registry shown on the Yamato when she was destroyed was completely different.

That does not explain why the crew recognized the Yamato with the registry of 'Yadda yadda - E'.

It must of been the registry at that point, but was changed later on.

Yes it does explain it. Direct quote from the STE

Although, the Yamato's registry number was established in "Contagion" to be NCC-71807, an earlier, incorrect number was given in "Where Silence has Lease", when an illusory version of that ship was seen. An early draft for that episode gave the number as NCC-1305E, which didn't fit into the number scheme developed for starships in The Next Generation. Mike Okuda wrote a note to the producers, requesting the number be changed, but didn't send the memo because a later draft of that script dropped the reference to the Yamato's registry number. Mike wasn't aware that an even-later draft of the scriopt restored the scene and the cinorrect number. By the time he found out (when he saw the completed episode on the air), he had already prepared the markings for the U.S.S. Yamaoto saucer, for the scene when that ship blew up in the episode "Contagion"

Pardon the mistakes, I had to transcribe that myself. Anyway, this is not the first time such mistakes have occured. The Brattain is another such example. Suffice to say this was a mistake and we know the proper registry is without additonal lettering.

[Vympel]

Ok then, Enterprise as the 'flagship' gets the honor of recieving the same registry number everytime, but can we establish any system in terms of registry numbers? They still could be completely random.

[Alyeska]

Ok then, Enterprise as the 'flagship' gets the honor of recieving the same registry number everytime, but can we establish any system in terms of registry numbers? They still could be completely random.

Registry problem essay

Bernd does a good job examining the issue and determines there is a degree of organization in the system but ages aren't as easy to determine. If one held the numbers in chronological order then Akira class ships were built even before the Nebula class (which is also older then the Galaxy class using this scheme) and that flies in the face of what we see.

Personaly I think its more along these lines. They have a system somewhat similar to the current US navy numbering scheme. Like how we currently have stuff like CG-56, CG-60, etc... I think they build a lot of ships and say starting from NCC-71304 there might be 71304-71350 for a series of Steamrunner class ships built. That means ships are ordered in blocks and it would explain why several ships of the same class of the same registry scale. Now, does this mean ships are ordered in sequence? Maybe yes, then again maybe no. I suppose some of the newer ships might have been ordered way back when, but were delayed and held their original order number. That could explain why newer Akiras have lower registries compared to Galaxys and Nebulas.

[Super-Gagme]

You know that battlegroup isn't all that bad. Don't forget that the Enterprise was meant to meet up with them and engage the Scimitar. That would put the Federation Group at Galaxy Refit, 2 Excelsior refits(maybe), Sovereign, Intrepid, and 3 kind of unknown ships. Overall I don't see this as a bad make up, hell the Galaxy/Sov/2Ex could probably take on the Scimitar and also the two Valdores that would be showing up as well. All in all not that bad.

[Vympel]

You know that battlegroup isn't all that bad. Don't forget that the Enterprise was meant to meet up with them and engage the Scimitar. That would put the Federation Group at Galaxy Refit, 2 Excelsior refits(maybe), Sovereign, Intrepid, and 3 kind of unknown ships. Overall I don't see this as a bad make up, hell the Galaxy/Sov/2Ex could probably take on the Scimitar and also the two Valdores that would be showing up as well. All in all not that bad.

Too bad they didnt' think of how cool a big fight like that would be: it's the same way they fucked up First Contact.