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Hi,
Just wasnted to post a quote regarding the thread title

The Romulan Strategem (TNG Book #35 - Page 80) wrote:To parapharase (I don't have the book at hand and don't remember the dialogue exactly):

Dr. Crusher: My son has just joined Starfleet Academy.
Plactus (Romulan Sub-Commander): Ah it seems we will each have a son in the military!
Dr. Crusher: Starfleet is not the military Sub-Commander and you know that.
Plactus: Ah but doctor, if there are hostilities, it is Starfleet that will defend the borders. That is military and you know that.

Is there a reason why stupid people out there still feel the need to dispute Starfleet's status

The Federation got all touchy feely about things. It seems everyone but Starfleet itself knows that Starfleet is military. Its structure, one of its primary missions, and its ships clearly indicate a military status. At least certain people within Starfleet recognize how things work. O'Brien has been called a soldier on countless occasions, Maxwell had a well run ship, and Jellico was most definately a captain. Now it seems the Federation began to realize its mistake because Starfleet took a much more military stance since the start of the Dominion war.

Alyeska wrote:The Federation got all touchy feely about things. It seems everyone but Starfleet itself knows that Starfleet is military. Its structure, one of its primary missions, and its ships clearly indicate a military status. At least certain people within Starfleet recognize how things work. O'Brien has been called a soldier on countless occasions, Maxwell had a well run ship, and Jellico was most definately a captain. Now it seems the Federation began to realize its mistake because Starfleet took a much more military stance since the start of the Dominion war.

I agree with everything you said, but I was referring to the real world Trekkies (I think there were a few a few months back) who still try and claim Starfleet is a non-military organization even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Supreme_Warlord wrote:

Alyeska wrote:The Federation got all touchy feely about things. It seems everyone but Starfleet itself knows that Starfleet is military. Its structure, one of its primary missions, and its ships clearly indicate a military status. At least certain people within Starfleet recognize how things work. O'Brien has been called a soldier on countless occasions, Maxwell had a well run ship, and Jellico was most definately a captain. Now it seems the Federation began to realize its mistake because Starfleet took a much more military stance since the start of the Dominion war.

I agree with everything you said, but I was referring to the real world Trekkies (I think there were a few a few months back) who still try and claim Starfleet is a non-military organization even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Ah yes, I debated several in regards to who was a better captain (Jellico or Picard) and the fucking idiots continue their rant. The simple fact of the matter is the structure, mission, and ships used by Starfleet clearly are military in nature and one is delusional to not believe this. These are the same people that think that TOS and early TNG are "Real Trek" and hate DS9 because of the dark nature and the war. It seems these people have their heads in the sand and can't see reality.

Alyeska wrote:... These are the same people that think that TOS and early TNG are "Real Trek" and hate DS9 because of the dark nature and the war ...

If the definition of "Real Trek" were to mean the standard of stories and non-use of deluge levels of technobabble, then I would agree with them.

Having said that, if one does judge a series by the standards of its stories and the realistic portrayal of human behaviour and interaction with alien species, then DS9 is up there with the best of them, with ENT, late TNG and VOY being aberattions.

Supreme_Warlord wrote:

Alyeska wrote:... These are the same people that think that TOS and early TNG are "Real Trek" and hate DS9 because of the dark nature and the war ...

If the definition of "Real Trek" were to mean the standard of stories and non-use of deluge levels of technobabble, then I would agree with them.

Having said that, if one does judge a series by the standards of its stories and the realistic portrayal of human behaviour and interaction with alien species, then DS9 is up there with the best of them, with ENT, late TNG and VOY being aberattions.

These people also forget that early TNG and all of TOS as well as the movies clearly show war, chaos, and a MILITARY!

Alyeska wrote: Ah yes, I debated several in regards to who was a better captain (Jellico or Picard) and the fucking idiots continue their rant. The simple fact of the matter is the structure, mission, and ships used by Starfleet clearly are military in nature and one is delusional to not believe this. These are the same people that think that TOS and early TNG are "Real Trek" and hate DS9 because of the dark nature and the war. It seems these people have their heads in the sand and can't see reality.

I would love to see some of those debates.

These people also forget that early TNG and all of TOS as well as the movies clearly show war, chaos, and a MILITARY!

Meh, I don't know about early TNG- TOS was military without a doubt but early TNG- under the control of Rodenberry unleashed with all his pinko-commie (sorry Gene) ideals and inane declarations (there must be NO conflict in between the members of the crew! I.e. throwing out the popular McCoy vs Spock thing from TOS) didn't strike me as very martial. Even the Ferengi episode was pretty sucky in that regard.

If Palpatine keeps managing to come back from the dead, why could Kirk not be similarly resussicated. He could have kept cloning himself in the transporter everytime he wanted to.

BTW, the above is not meant to be a serious idea but it does express my nostalgia for the whole TOS representation of Trek. If I had to pick an all time favourite slice of Trek, it would have to be The Undiscovered Country.

Vympel wrote:I would love to see some of those debates.

Ask and you shall recieve

And another one

I'm into like page 4. This is fun. As I recall, since I've never seen the episode, Jellico is the actor who plays evil executive 'Dick' in Robocop and Cohagen in Total Recall.

What're those two episodes called again? I might get them ... from somewhere.

Vympel wrote:I'm into like page 4. This is fun. As I recall, since I've never seen the episode, Jellico is the actor who plays evil executive 'Dick' in Robocop and Cohagen in Total Recall.

What're those two episodes called again? I might get them ... from somewhere.

Chains of Command PT 1&2

Rereading this thread again (which I had taken part in AND created) I am getting very pissed off with Ladiesman. This idiot continues to spout his bullshit even today how DS9 sucked and wasn't True Trek and all that crap.

Alyeska wrote:Rereading this thread again (which I had taken part in AND created) I am getting very pissed off with Ladiesman. This idiot continues to spout his bullshit even today how DS9 sucked and wasn't True Trek and all that crap.

Yeah I was having that argument with him again less that 4 days ago.

Alyeska wrote:Rereading this thread again (which I had taken part in AND created) I am getting very pissed off with Ladiesman. This idiot continues to spout his bullshit even today how DS9 sucked and wasn't True Trek and all that crap.

He's been doing so ever since he registered, Aly. Has been fun at the start, but by now it's just ennerving.

Actually, Ladiesman is my favorite Trekkie ever. I *heart* Trekkies that think that StarTrek is infallible. They are so fun to play with.