StarDestroyer.Net BBS

A Federation Captain and run into this situation:
You have two starsystems within just a few light years which are fighting a war over religious reasons. They are populated by Humans but the technology is very low to the point where they only have primative FTL. Both are a bit of extremests but one is muich worth than the other. One was colonized by people who were ejected by the other colony and the ejected colonists are far more extreme including the extreme subjecation of women. The older colony is on a hostile planet and most of its technology is used just to support their planet. The newer colony can afford to invest more of their system product (It is a theocracy) in military projects and plans to bring the other colony into the fold and will use nuclear strikes to gain this. The older colony sees the Fedartion starship (Which is advanced enough to defeat the forces of both systems in a stand up fight). Using various Trek captains, do the captains get involved or does it violate the prime directive. I think at leaswt Kirk would get involved because he seems to have in similar situations.

Total violation of the Prime Directive. Humans or not, you're messing with a primitive culture. Going by the book, you should butt out and ask StarFleet command for advisement.

But what would really happen? Well first off Diana Troi would get romantically involved with the leader of the insane extremists and talk his head off with innane psychobabble while Worf debated the finer points of "honor" in the situation. Picard would be apalled by the situation, and likely make a decision to help the colonists based on his own judgement (and because the audience would look at him like a bastard if he didnt do anything) and then Geordi would come up with some funky solution involving subspace and phase-inverters which would make everyone turn into hippies and start an interstellar-glee-club.

Wait though, if they are humans then they are originally from Earth. And that being the case they may have become a primitive culture, but they didn't start out that way. I don't believe the prime directive would be applicable in that instance. Meh, I could be wrong though?

Hm, you may have a point. In the TNG episide "The Masterpiece Society" there was an unknown human colony that the Enterprise interferred with, although I dont recall if the issue of the Prime Directive was brought up or not.

Marc Xavier wrote:Hm, you may have a point. In the TNG episide "The Masterpiece Society" there was an unknown human colony that the Enterprise interferred with, although I dont recall if the issue of the Prime Directive was brought up or not.

There was also some TNG ep...I think first season? I don't remember much about it, but there were 2 human colonies. One was more advanced but they were dying do to over-cloning. The other was much more low-tech culture, but had more genetic stock. I think they were called the Bringlodi (sp) but they were transplanted to help replenish the other colonies genetic stock. I'll have to dig up some info...crap episode though IIRC.

Edit: Found it, it's called "Up the Long Ladder". ST link if needed. http://www.startrek.com/library/tng_epi ... _68394.asp

Ugh, early TNG. I mean, I like it. But, sometimes---just, ugh.

If they are humans, I think that the Prime Directive doesn't apply.

Kitsune wrote:A Federation Captain and run into this situation:
You have two starsystems within just a few light years which are fighting a war over religious reasons. They are populated by Humans but the technology is very low to the point where they only have primative FTL.

So they must be human colonists who have somehow fucked themselves up?

Both are a bit of extremests but one is muich worth than the other. One was colonized by people who were ejected by the other colony and the ejected colonists are far more extreme including the extreme subjecation of women. The older colony is on a hostile planet and most of its technology is used just to support their planet. The newer colony can afford to invest more of their system product (It is a theocracy) in military projects and plans to bring the other colony into the fold and will use nuclear strikes to gain this. The older colony sees the Fedartion starship (Which is advanced enough to defeat the forces of both systems in a stand up fight). Using various Trek captains, do the captains get involved or does it violate the prime directive. I think at leaswt Kirk would get involved because he seems to have in similar situations.

OK, so we basically have a violent fundie colony and a normal colony.

Kirk's response: beam down to the fundie colony, see them mistreating some poor woman, beat the shit out of them for it, take the woman back to his ship, and fuck her brains out. In the morning, blow up the fundie planet's weapons from orbit and then helps a rebel group overthrow the fundie government.

Picard's response: give long, boring, pompous speeches about why they shouldn't interfere. Then, some plot device or insubordinate crewman causes them to interfere anyway. Luckily, Picard does not punish insubordination, since this is the Princess Cruise Line in space, not a military organization. At the end of the day, they don't really do much to change the situation, but they've done just enough for Picard to make more pompous speeches about how reckless they were.

Sisko's response: it has nothing to do with his precious Bajor, so he doesn't give a shit. Prime Directive gives him a nice excuse to ignore the situation and continue on his way.

Janeway's response: not sure, but somehow she'll leave both planets in worse shape than they were in when she found them.

Darth Wong wrote:Picard's response: give long, boring, pompous speeches about why they shouldn't interfere. Then, some plot device or insubordinate crewman causes them to interfere anyway. Luckily, Picard does not punish insubordination, since this is the Princess Cruise Line in space, not a military organization. At the end of the day, they don't really do much to change the situation, but they've done just enough for Picard to make more pompous speeches about how reckless they were.

You forgot to include the minimum three board meetings the crisis would require for Picard to finally get 'round to his most pompous speech of them all.

We must also consider the Archer response: stupidly get himself and Trippy captured by the most violent and fanatical faction while stupidly attempting to retrieve his Starfleet toenail snips which he stupidly lost on the surface. Then deciding that the best way to keep the secret of outer space travellers is to invent some insane horseshit lie that he and Trippy are actually prototype androids sent by the other colony, which ensures a nuclear war because of the resulting paranoia they've now created. Once safely back on board the ship, Archer pontificates himself into a blue funk, while Trippy does another lotion-rub session with T'pol in the decon tank.

If they have FTL then the 'prime directive' (AKA General Order No 1) doesn't apply.

NecronLord wrote:If they have FTL then the 'prime directive' (AKA General Order No 1) doesn't apply.

I dimly think I remeber an episode where they do not interfere with an FTL culture due to the prime directive

Kitsune wrote:

NecronLord wrote:If they have FTL then the 'prime directive' (AKA General Order No 1) doesn't apply.

I dimly think I remeber an episode where they do not interfere with an FTL culture due to the prime directive

I don't. I do remember them integrating a culture that had only discovered warp drive a year ago in Insurection though.

Marc Xavier wrote:Total violation of the Prime Directive. Humans or not, you're messing with a primitive culture. Going by the book, you should butt out and ask StarFleet command for advisement.

No, remember 'Insurrection'. The Prime Directive only aplies to indeginous inhabitants, it would not be an issue here.

Invoke the Felts Protocal: slag both planets for not being valuable enough but making you dispatch a starship or invoke the Felts Initiative.

NecronLord wrote: I don't. I do remember them integrating a culture that had only discovered warp drive a year ago in Insurection though.

How about not getting involved in the Klingon revolution?

NecronLord wrote:If they have FTL then the 'prime directive' (AKA General Order No 1) doesn't apply.

The Prime Directive applies to all civilizations regardless of being warp capable or not. Their are many instances of this during Deep Space Nines run, most notably with the Federations relations with Bajor, the Prime Directive was constantly being brought up.

Kitsune wrote:

NecronLord wrote: I don't. I do remember them integrating a culture that had only discovered warp drive a year ago in Insurection though.

How about not getting involved in the Klingon revolution?

What revolution?

Macross wrote:The Prime Directive applies to all civilizations regardless of being warp capable or not. Their are many instances of this during Deep Space Nines run, most notably with the Federations relations with Bajor, the Prime Directive was constantly being brought up.

"They have warp drive - the prime directive does not apply." - Admiral Dougherty ST:I

Incidentally, for a long time the Bajorans weren't warp capable (see TNG)

I don't. I do remember them integrating a culture that had only discovered warp drive a year ago in Insurection though.

It was three years ago. And it was mentioned to be a warp drive. Maybe the prime directive considers only warp drive as FTL. I am not sure though.

The Prime Directive only applies to primitive societies, as defined by warp capability. Its entire purpose is to prevent cultural contamination, which is a ridiculous concern when dealing with a society that is openly interacting with you on many levels.

Sometimes, admirals (who seem to set policy on such matters, rather than civilian leaders) fraudulently invoke the holy name of the Prime Directive when advancing their own agenda, as we saw in the case of the Klingon Civil War, but that should not be used as a reason to change the definition of the Prime Directive itself. It's really no different than idiots who invoke First Amendment rights when they get fired from their jobs for mouthing off to a manager or a customer. It's a mis-application of the concept.

The Prime Directive seems to cause a lot of troubles. Whe not simply get rid of it. It would surely make starfleet more flexible.

evilcat4000 wrote:The Prime Directive seems to cause a lot of troubles. Whe not simply get rid of it. It would surely make starfleet more flexible.

Well, it's probably a good rule not to fiddle-fuck with the primitives unless you absolutely have to, just going by what happened in human history every time a more advanced civlization made contact with a more primitive one, but it should probably be taken down a few notches. The Prime Directive should be, "Preserve by any means necessary the existence of all Federation member species," and then work your way down from there.

Well, this situation is copied exactly from Honor of the Queen except the Federation instead of Manticore, and no Haven to worry about. With Grayson and Masada, remember the Masadans are completely fanatic, and use the Old Testament as the basis for their laws. Except when it suits them, such as the rape and torture of Manticoran prisoners. I think Picard would side with Grayson in this case, after the brutality of the Masadans became known. Except he wouldnt do anything but provide moral support, because hes a pussy.

Darth Wong wrote:The Prime Directive only applies to primitive societies, as defined by warp capability.

That's what I always thought, but in Voyager, Janeway used the Prime Directive to refuse to sell/trade any technology to the... uh, whatever the first-season bad guy aliens that Seska joined were called, even their warp tech was about as good as the Federation's.

Perhaps that's just another example of Fed captains/admirals twisting it to their own means? Although I don't see how doing this benefitted Janeway...

That's what I always thought, but in Voyager, Janeway used the Prime Directive to refuse to sell/trade any technology to the... uh, whatever the first-season bad guy aliens that Seska joined were called, even their warp tech was about as good as the Federation's.

I think they stole their warp tech rather than developed it. Except from their space technology, which they stole, they were primitive.