T'kon

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-07-16 01:54pm

Thinking about the demise of the empire due to a single supernoval, could they have been based in a ringworld or dyson sphere?

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2003-07-16 02:21pm

NecronLord wrote:Thinking about the demise of the empire due to a single supernoval, could they have been based in a ringworld or dyson sphere?

Nah. I'd want to bet that the supernova set up a suspace shockwave of the same sort as the explosion of the Klingon moon (ST:VI). Just a lot bigger, since each major installation that blew up under the overload would have added its own expanding sphere of subspace ickiness.

Thus, the T'Kon probably got caught with their figurative pants down, the shockwave catching them unawares. If their technology base was even remotely like that of the Federation, just more advanced in some areas and less in others, every toothbrush would have had a subspace field coil to overload and -- in a sufficiently strong field -- blow up violently. If planetary powergrids and the power systems of planetoid ships blow...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-07-16 02:28pm

They had an entire planet as an energy transfer device. The feds are nowhere near them.

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2003-07-16 03:03pm

NecronLord wrote:They had an entire planet as an energy transfer device. The feds are nowhere near them.

The T'kon seem to have been where the Feds should be a generation or two down the road if their available technologies were applied logically. Applied illogically as Fed technology is, the feds are maybe a millenium or so behind. Certainly by Picard's time the Federation's scientists and engineers should have figured out some of the secrets of the other manufactured worlds that were encountered in Kirk's day. Those other worlds might not have rivaled the T'kon example, but with 80 years of lead time the Feds should have had something.

Actually, though, the planetoid in the episode was a border guard, not an energy transfer device. The completely overpowering energy fields were just part of that border guard's equipment. A dedicated energy transfer device would likely have had more power.

Of course, the abrupt collapse of the T'kon Empire, which might have come at roughly the same time as similar disasters in other major political entities of the Alpha Quadrant, could in part explain the relative parity of technologies used by the various species. Only those civilizations substantially more advanced than the T'kon, very distant, extremely primitive, or using completely alien abilities, would have weathered those disasters unharmed. Then again, it's all idle speculation.

Looping back to your original question, though, if they had been using a ringworld or Dyson sphere, there would probably not have been so much emphasis on the starmap with all those worlds once claimed by the T'kon. And even a bug-ridden AI like Data would have probably mentioned a Dyson sphere being part of the T'kon Empire.[/u]

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-07-16 03:11pm

I'd just like to know how a supernova caught them by suprise. You'd think with the death of a star that the writing would be on the proverbial wall for a few million years or so before it exploded.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-07-16 03:43pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:I'd just like to know how a supernova caught them by suprise. You'd think with the death of a star that the writing would be on the proverbial wall for a few million years or so before it exploded.

You and I would think that but the Trek writing staff obviously doesn't. They think a planets core can solidify in a few years.
Link 1
Besides, NO ONE in Trek EVER likes to leave their home planet even if they have several generations of warning that their star's days are numbered.
Link 2

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-07-16 04:49pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:I'd just like to know how a supernova caught them by suprise. You'd think with the death of a star that the writing would be on the proverbial wall for a few million years or so before it exploded.

Concidering how FUBAR ST stars seem to be, that might not be the case. Stupid writers.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-16 05:42pm

It was probably a treknobabble torpedo

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2003-07-17 07:14am

IIRC the Dominion tried to blow up Bajors sun with some wierd device and there was some other star killing stuff around. Perhaps the T'Kon supernova wasn't a natural fenomenon witch could explain why it was so devestating.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-07-19 01:17am

CJvR wrote:IIRC the Dominion tried to blow up Bajors sun with some wierd device and there was some other star killing stuff around. Perhaps the T'Kon supernova wasn't a natural fenomenon witch could explain why it was so devestating.

I agree. Even with present day technologies we can predict supernovaes. The vastly superior T'Kon should have had plenty of warning. IMHO the T'Kon extinction even was probobly work of a very powerful superweapen that wiped their highly advanced civilization.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-07-19 01:25am

The Feds could have gotten it completely wrong. The T'Kon might have been wiped out by another power (or wiped themselves out in a civil war) using weapons that can cause supernovas. The supernova the Federation thinks was the cause of their downfall might actually be an effect.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-07-19 01:53am

RedImperator wrote:The Feds could have gotten it completely wrong. The T'Kon might have been wiped out by another power (or wiped themselves out in a civil war) using weapons that can cause supernovas. The supernova the Federation thinks was the cause of their downfall might actually be an effect.

That is my theory too. An advanced civilization that surpasses the Federation can not be destroyed by a natural supernova.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-07-19 02:30am

evilcat4000 wrote:
RedImperator wrote:The Feds could have gotten it completely wrong. The T'Kon might have been wiped out by another power (or wiped themselves out in a civil war) using weapons that can cause supernovas. The supernova the Federation thinks was the cause of their downfall might actually be an effect.
That is my theory too. An advanced civilization that surpasses the Federation can not be destroyed by a natural supernova.

Unless of course they are so stupidly centralized like the Federation. Everything in one system. That gets taken out and their enemies and subjects tear the Empire apart!

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-07-20 03:27am

Unless of course they are so stupidly centralized like the Federation. Everything in one system. That gets taken out and their enemies and subjects tear the Empire apart!

T'Kon seems far too advanced to be stupid like the Federation. Even if they were so stupid their sensors should have given them plenty of waring about the impending supernova. And besides an interstellar civilization should be spread across multiple star sytems. The destruction of one star system should not affect the others.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 2003-07-20 11:24am

Maybe the Q were fighting each other?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-07-20 02:20pm

Lots of unnecessary speculation here, folks. The Klingon Empire, the Romulan Empire, and even the Federation are heavily centralized around a single star system. Take away that system, and the rest of the empire either collapses or gets attacked or assimilated by neighbouring powers.

Why do you think the Klingon empire was brought to its knees by the loss of Quo'nos' ozone layer?

It is hardly inconceivable to think that the T'Kon were laid low by a single supernova. It is difficult to imagine that it took them by surprise, but perhaps they were experimenting on their own Sun (in Star Trek, that kind of stupidity is par for the course).

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-07-20 02:39pm

Darth Wong wrote:It is hardly inconceivable to think that the T'Kon were laid low by a single supernova. It is difficult to imagine that it took them by surprise, but perhaps they were experimenting on their own Sun (in Star Trek, that kind of stupidity is par for the course).

Sounds like their empire fell the day they discovered why "oops" is the most terrifying word in physics.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-07-20 02:56pm

Patrick Degan wrote:Sounds like their empire fell the day they discovered why "oops" is the most terrifying word in physics.

T'Phil: "Gee, T'Bob, our sun has been looking mighty sickly these past 50 million years, think it's going to blow up?

T'Bob: "You worry too much, T'Phil. Now let's practice our macho warrior affectations and then drink some Zima."

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-07-20 06:42pm

Jeremy wrote:Maybe the Q were fighting each other?

Actually their destruction is described in a non canon Q book (I only put it here as a point of interest and not an actual explanation).

Q fell in with a bad crowd a creature that lives outside the galaxy and infects people passing through the galactic barrier with bits of itself, giving them Psi powers, the weird alien cube that feeds off hatred from "Day of the Dove" and The One (the alien from ST V) who invented monotheism.

This guys then tag teamed with their various powers to bring about he end of the T'Kon by causing civil disturbances and the like until the sun went up.

The book also includes an explanation as to why the Calamarain don't like Q (he froze them into a little ice block).

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