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Find it strange it wasn't already posted but here you go

http://trekweb.com/articles/2005/02/15/ ... 45e5.shtml

Do find it intriguing, but TNG trek style is not something I would want, but with B5 type characters in TNG type serie could be interesting, but I think JMS will push the serie by alot, making it more interesting.

So who's pushing a new B5 series in '06 to fill UPN's sci-fi void?

Chmee wrote:So who's pushing a new B5 series in '06 to fill UPN's sci-fi void?

Ehmm... a JMS clone?

Dark Primus wrote:

Chmee wrote:So who's pushing a new B5 series in '06 to fill UPN's sci-fi void?

Ehmm... a JMS clone?

I'm just going by his addendum that he'd been offered an '06 job for a tv series .... wonder which network.

*shrugs* People will expect a good story arc from him. Will he do it? I'm not sure.....

A Trek serie made like B5 without the magic solution to save a world,i would deffinitly watch that.

has potential.

I really like this part, makes me feel this man could be just the ticket:

Because left to its own devices, allowed to go as far as it could, telling the same kind of challenging stories Trek was always known for, it could blow the doors off science fiction television. Think of it for a moment, a series with a forty year solid name, guaranteed markets...can you think of a better time when you take chances and can tell daring, imaginative, challenging stories? Why play it safe?

Emphasis mine. The whole paragraph is good, but that last part speaks volumes about what JMS claims to be willing to do.

The only problem is Paramount. They have said NO, nothing for two years. Well bother dash, I am all for waiting for it to be done right, but these two men are willing to do it right NOW, in two years they might have other obligations. Still, hope is not lost *crosses fingers*

Here's my two cents nefore I retire for the evening.

Paramount, you never cease to amaze me. ENT is barely over and you're already cooking up the next milking of the cash cow, a cow that thanks to your greed is all but dry. This was to be expected to happen in time, but one to two years? Stop beating the dead horse already.

Okay, I'm done.

JMS sounds keen and committed, and that's good, yet even I have my doubts about his necessary ability to turn shit to gold. Nevertheless, a Trek show helmed by him and that Dark Skies guy would be better than the Dimwitted Duo could do. I think however he's overestimating his ability. B5 succeeded due to, quite frankly, fortuitous events - that show was running on good luck throughout every one of it's five years. One of the reasons it succeeded was becase the networks left them alone.

Does anyone honestly think Paramount would give them the same amount of freedom? If you do, then whatever it is you're smoking, gimme some of it.

OT: is it my imagination or does JMS strive to find a way to put that William Faulkner quote into everything he writes?

Stofsk wrote:Does anyone honestly think Paramount would give them the same amount of freedom? If you do, then whatever it is you're smoking, gimme some of it.

Yeah...maybe for awhile the suits would give the writers autonomy, but once they got a hit? I see Paramount execs poking their nose in the creatvie process more and more...JMS has also seemed inclined to not put up with that crap...look at Crusade...

Skylon wrote:

Stofsk wrote:Does anyone honestly think Paramount would give them the same amount of freedom? If you do, then whatever it is you're smoking, gimme some of it.

Yeah...maybe for awhile the suits would give the writers autonomy, but once they got a hit? I see Paramount execs poking their nose in the creatvie process more and more...JMS has also seemed inclined to not put up with that crap...look at Crusade...

No he doesn't like it at all, but he seems to tolerate it to some extent, and his limit was reached when the TNT execs told him to put in a rape scene.

He also has this way of working against the execs even when told to do a certain thing. For instance, when TNT told him to change the crew's uniforms he did so - then he wrote his characters saying quite bluntly "These new uniforms are shit." The thing with Dureena was the straw that broke the camel's back, but frankly you get nowhere by ignoring the execs. It is unprofessional to do otherwise, so he's not this lone crusader working against the Big Bad Execs and trailing a path through the wilderness. He does have a line that can be crossed, but besides that, he knows when to shut up and obey his bosses. (AKA the people who are paying him to write)

Stofsk wrote:yet even I have my doubts about his necessary ability to turn shit to gold.

I'm actually glad that you mentioned that. The way people present JMS, particularly in relation to him "rescuing" Star Trek, makes him out to sound like some kind of golden calf.

I've seen probably about two seasons worth of B5 episodes, and overall just wasn't that impressed and found it generally too dull to hold my interest, while its cringe-worthy dialogue drove me away in an attempt to watch it again years later. His episode scripts for cartoons worked better for me, and I'll say right now that Ron Moore is doing more that's impressed me more than JMS ever has.

So from the perspective of an outsider so to speak, is JMS really as cracked up as people rave on, and could he genuinely, honestly do something with Star Trek?

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

Stofsk wrote:yet even I have my doubts about his necessary ability to turn shit to gold.

I'm actually glad that you mentioned that. The way people present JMS, particularly in relation to him "rescuing" Star Trek, makes him out to sound like some kind of golden calf.

I think a part of that was strengthened with the story of B5's making. When you read about how he laboured for 5 years to even get a pilot, then spent the next 5 years in a kind of 'edge-of-my-seat, am-I-gonna-get-cancelled-this-year-or-not?' fashion, it lends an air of indomintability to the man's reputation. If he's worked that hard on B5 it must be good, is the logic thse people have.

*snip*

Well you obviously didn't like B5 and that's ok, since I agree with your point about the fucking dialogue. He can't write it all that well. Some of the episodes were dull.

So from the perspective of an outsider so to speak, is JMS really as cracked up as people rave on, and could he genuinely, honestly do something with Star Trek?

Is he really as big as people say he is? No.

Can he do something with ST? Let me put it this way: he would be a better replacement for B&B, and for that reason alone, he gets my confidence. Based on his merits alone it's a big "who knows?" question. Based on the people he's replacing well, he can't do any worse IMO, and I bet you five bucks that if Paramount says "OK JMS, you can do it" not only will there be a resurgence of old ST fans coming back to the fold to see his vision of ST, but the B5 fans will come as well which could always increase ratings as the show continues.

Is he a good writer? He repeats himself, he writes dialogue poorly, and his plots are overarcing, have a lot of reach for sometimes no payoff (still waiting for the B5 episode that deals with Bester's fate... oh, wait...), have the soap opera syndrome, and can have some of the most annoying scifi brainbugs in them (organic technology, fantasy elements infused with science, or the 'advanced science=magic' brainbug which functions as a misrepresentation of Clarke's Law). He also has this annoying way of putting in homages to other shows or books, often times directly lifting out a piece of dialogue. "Expect me... when you see me." and "Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." Yes, I know he's giving a homage to Tolkien, but really what the fuck for?

In spite of all his flaws, he's still ahead of B&B. He's already got fans that love him like little Fremen. Meanwhile B&B have endeavoured to completely alienate their audience from the franchise.

JMS couldn't do anything with Trek we haven't seen before, and Ron Moore should be tarred and feathered for the horrors he inflicted on it the first time. Just let it die for Christ's sake!

HemlockGrey wrote:JMS couldn't do anything with Trek we haven't seen before, and Ron Moore should be tarred and feathered for the horrors he inflicted on it the first time. Just let it die for Christ's sake!

Oh right, and Paramount is gonna listen to a bunch of internet geeks like us? No fucking way. They're not going to stop, and you know it. Only until it becomes starkingly clear to the suits that ST is bringing in diminishing returns. Perhaps not even then. They're so mindnumbingly stupid that they don't know when to say 'die!'

JMS needs his own universe to play in. I think the Trek would be just to confining for him to succeed in what sets him apart. His ability to develop long meaningful story arcs would be severly hampered, thus reducing him to simply doing one show stories and writing dialog. That is not something he fairs that well in compared to other shows like SG1.

JMS isn't bad, but he aint the almight God many people (read Fivers) make him out to be. I felt sick after watching most of crusade and needed to get drunk after watching LOTR.

Its possibly a good idea, buit I withhold judgement. After Crusade and LOTR, he lost me in terms of being able to get 100% behind any project he thought about. Now he's on probation.

Stofsk wrote:

Skylon wrote: He also has this way of working against the execs even when told to do a certain thing. For instance, when TNT told him to change the crew's uniforms he did so - then he wrote his characters saying quite bluntly "These new uniforms are shit." The thing with Dureena was the straw that broke the camel's back, but frankly you get nowhere by ignoring the execs. It is unprofessional to do otherwise, so he's not this lone crusader working against the Big Bad Execs and trailing a path through the wilderness. He does have a line that can be crossed, but besides that, he knows when to shut up and obey his bosses. (AKA the people who are paying him to write)

Little clarification thing...and this will help give a clue how screwed up Crusade was.

The shitty grey uniforms...those are the ones Crusade started with. After filming a few episodes, TNT gave them a slight budget increase and started making "the notes" to JMS. The new black uniforms came in, and TNT demanded they film a new first episode, and that the first episodes aired by TNT would be the ones with the better looking black uniforms, despite the fact that the episodes with the crappy grey uniforms had been shot and the show was following a storyline.

So, they did so, and JMS had to write-in an episode to explain the uniform change. Had the series continued there would have been a laundry accident basically and they would switch back to the black uniforms...

The major effect of this was a new first episode, "War Zone" was written...it sucked, and JMS' intended first episode (the title escapes me) ended up airing in the middle of the short-lived season.

I just have to weigh in as well on JMS. I was a HUGE fan after watching B-5 but even season 5 was starting to turn to shit, then we had some of those godawful movies - River of Souls AGH!!! Never watched it straight through in a single sitting. Thirdspace - oh look we're even more mighty than the Vorlons...hey I know let me repackage that concept into....LOTR A WMD of epic proprtions. I truly wish someone had smuggled this bomb out to Syria instead of having it pollute my airwaves. I defy you not to cringe or look away in disgust at the infamous fire control station scene in LOTR with the women Kung Fuing her way through an enemy warfleet replete with horrific screaming worse than any Geonosian arena bad Jedi acting you'll ever hear.

Frankly JMS seems to have fired his load with the first 4 seasons of B5 and his fans have been giving him a free pass ever since. "It's the suits man." "Its the schedule" "He didn't have enough time." "He didn't know it would be renewed." I'll keep an open mind on this guy but he's no "OMG bestest writer erver!!!111!!!" bullshit I hear way to often from Fivers.

Well, Crusade is just a mess with literally no workable order. That's what happen with episodes unproduced and at least two forced in revisions to the plot. A big mess over all.

JMS seems to have been slowly spiralling away from sci-fi and into fantasy - hell, it seems to me like B5 shows that quite clearly, where more fantasy elements started taking greater and greater footholds on the series. Eventually he's spiralled into crap like A Call To Arms/Crusade and LOTR.

If he's willing to make a commitment to stay away from fantasy elements in Star Trek - which in my opinion is one of the biggest problems I have with DS9, the whole "wormhole aliens /pah'wraith" line of crap - then I can see him doing good things with Star Trek. Otherwise... I'd give him 50/50 odds at best.

ACTUALLY... now that I think of it, how much of an influence over B5 was Harlan Ellison? How much of what's good about that show do we have him to thank for? That might be an important factor in determining what JMS really brings to any table.

Season 5 certainly has its problems but it kinda dumb-founds me how people say "oh, just watch seasons 1 - 4, or, it was great until season 5"...forgetting that season 1 has its share of heavy issues.

When the show was first running I was always on the edge of just dropping the damn thing from viewing, but the occasional arc episode "Sky Full of Stars", "Signs and Portents" and "Babylon Squared" kept me with it when the show was first running. It wasn't till the season 1 finale, "Chrysalis" that I felt I'd be sticking with the show.

Looking back, season 1 has some great foreshadowing and gives you an idea how well crafted the arc was, but for new viewers, it takes quite a bit of fortitude to get through the first time out.

Skylon wrote:Season 5 certainly has its problems but it kinda dumb-founds me how people say "oh, just watch seasons 1 - 4, or, it was great until season 5"...forgetting that season 1 has its share of heavy issues.

You can't compare season 5 issues to season 1 issues for the simple reason that season 1 was still trying to find its legs and he was testing alot of his arcs and premises.

There's really no excuse for the horrific writing that assailed us in season 5 when he's obvioulsy overcome his growing pains by the end of season 1 - goes on to give us three more seasons of some of the best sci fi ever then gives us the Telepath arc and other awfulness of Season 5. Quality of writing dropped dramtically in season 5 after establishing a track record in seasons 2-4. There was no track record to be disappointed by in season 1.

I too think that the dialogue and such on B5 could be poor but JMS wouldn't have to write the new series. He could instead be the executive producer and have others write. If a new series is made I'd like to see them use the talents of a range of sci-fi literature writers which might help keep a new series fresh.