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Is it ever stated that Kirk was youngest Starfleet captain and if so were and more importantly when (if was during TOS for example there's no reason for younger to exist after that episode)?

I don't think it was explicitly stated on screen that he was the youngest; there may have been a mention in the TMP novelisation, but that isn't canon.

The Startrek.com bio says he was the youngest captain in the fleet, presumably until today.

At 33 it was stated that Kirk was the youngest person to ever achieve the rank of Captain. However by TNG era I think that is no longer the case. However considering the responsibilties of a captain I can't see how someone younger than 33 can be saddled with that position realistically. Hell I think 33 is a bit young IMHO.

Stravo wrote:At 33 it was stated that Kirk was the youngest person to ever achieve the rank of Captain. However by TNG era I think that is no longer the case. However considering the responsibilties of a captain I can't see how someone younger than 33 can be saddled with that position realistically. Hell I think 33 is a bit young IMHO.

where was this stated.

Lord Revan wrote:

Stravo wrote:At 33 it was stated that Kirk was the youngest person to ever achieve the rank of Captain. However by TNG era I think that is no longer the case. However considering the responsibilties of a captain I can't see how someone younger than 33 can be saddled with that position realistically. Hell I think 33 is a bit young IMHO.

where was this stated.

There is an episode I believe where Kirk is up for a courtmartial and that comes out along with his service record which is chock full of medals and citations.

It is also repeated several times in some fluff materials and books. Non canon I know.

Stravo wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:

Stravo wrote:At 33 it was stated that Kirk was the youngest person to ever achieve the rank of Captain. However by TNG era I think that is no longer the case. However considering the responsibilties of a captain I can't see how someone younger than 33 can be saddled with that position realistically. Hell I think 33 is a bit young IMHO.

where was this stated.

There is an episode I believe where Kirk is up for a courtmartial and that comes out along with his service record which is chock full of medals and citations.

It was in "The Deadly Years" when Kirk and his officers were hyper-ageing. Commodore Stocker had forced the calling of a competency hearing, and when the computer reported Kirk's physological age at that point to be somewhere between 60 and 70, he protested that he was only 34 years old. That's when his age was established firmly in the series. Given that it was a second season episode, we can assume that Kirk may have been at an even younger age when he earned his first command post.

if the second pilot is in 2265 and "The Deadly Years" is in 2267. Kirk was 32 (at most) when he was promoted to captain (he could of course be even younger)

acording to the book about the first voyage of the
enterprize under kirk he was 29 when he took command
of the entrrprize and this was his second command
i forget the name of the book


XANATOS

XANATOS wrote:acording to the book about the first voyage of the
enterprize under kirk he was 29 when he took command
of the entrrprize and this was his second command
i forget the name of the book


XANATOS

I think the book was called, "Enterprise", by Vonda McIntrye. It's not canon, though it does contain a lot of unofficial information that was, uh, canonized in the sixth movie (like Sulu's first name and Kirk's middle name).

Are we sure that Kirk's actual rank was captain? There is precedent (in RL) for officers being given command of a vessel when holding a rank of less than captain. Such officers would hold the appointment of "captain of the ship" (or something like that), but their actual grade would be lower.

I realize that later in TOS, Kirk's actual rank was firmly established as captain. He may have been promoted at some point between being given command of the Enterprise and that episode.

(Please note that I'm merely playing devil's advocate here. I don't actually believe that we've been talking about the adventures of Lt. Commander Kirk all this time.)

Doubtful a Lt Commander would be given command of a line vessel without promotion to Full captian

Isolder74 wrote:Doubtful a Lt Commander would be given command of a line vessel without promotion to Full captian

No but a Commander might.

SCRawl wrote:Are we sure that Kirk's actual rank was captain? There is precedent (in RL) for officers being given command of a vessel when holding a rank of less than captain. Such officers would hold the appointment of "captain of the ship" (or something like that), but their actual grade would be lower.

I realize that later in TOS, Kirk's actual rank was firmly established as captain. He may have been promoted at some point between being given command of the Enterprise and that episode.

(Please note that I'm merely playing devil's advocate here. I don't actually believe that we've been talking about the adventures of Lt. Commander Kirk all this time.)

I doubt he was any less than a full Captain. Hell, IIRC, every starship commander we saw in TOS outranked Kirk... it wouldn't make much sense for him to be the only Commander amongst a bunch of Fleet Captains and Commodores, with nothing in between.

Also, I don't think the rank insignia changed over the course of the series.

You don't get command of a battleship at the rank of Commander.

You don't get command of a battleship at the rank of Commander.

Commander Sisko did.

jasonicusuk wrote:

You don't get command of a battleship at the rank of Commander.

Commander Sisko did.

No he didn't. The USS Defiant is an escort ship. Which would make it a heavy destroyer or thereabouts.

For the record, Kirk didn't either. The Constitution class is considered a heavy cruiser by the Starfleet of the day, and a battlecruiser by their contemporary adversaries, the Klingons.

jasonicusuk wrote:Commander Sisko did.

The Defiant was not a battleship. It was a ship designed for battle, true, but certainly according to the TMP novel, the Heavy Cruiser designation the Enterprise-A conforms to our understanding of the word battleship.

NecronLord wrote:

jasonicusuk wrote:Commander Sisko did.

The Defiant was not a battleship. It was a ship designed for battle, true, but certainly according to the TMP novel, the Heavy Cruiser designation the Enterprise-A conforms to our understanding of the word battleship.

The -A was from Voyage Home, and I thought that there was mention of a Federation 'dreadnought' in the TMP novel which was a separate class from the Connie?

A and Nil are 'heavy cruisers'

In any case, a dreadnought would be something like the excelsior. A cutting edge battleship class.

Ok, but you mentioned something in the TMP seems to suggest the Connie would be classed as a battleship by our standards, regardless of whether or not it's canon designation is heavy cruiser or 'battlecruiser' (gotta love what the other guys think of your ships ) - so what is it? I haven't read the novelisation so I don't know nor can I check it out.

[EDIT] 'What is it?' - I mean what does the TMP say about the connie?

In any case, a dreadnought would be something like the excelsior.

Or this monstrosity, visible on the displays in TSFS

Kirk thinks about the ship, and thinks how silly it is to call it a heavy cruiser for political reasons, when it warrants the designation of battleship.

The Defiant was not a battleship. It was a ship designed for battle, true, but certainly according to the TMP novel, the Heavy Cruiser designation the Enterprise-A conforms to our understanding of the word battleship.

A subtlty I missed, Thanks Necron. The Defiant being an escort or heavy fighter, I suppose.

No just an escort capship that handles like a fighter for some insane reason. It was called an escort ship in "The Search" part one.