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So, do we have any new stats for the Scimitar or Valadore class ships so we can debate them yet?

How about any pics/renders?

If this is in the wrong forum, move it, but since I'm not discussing the movie, just the tech in it I don't see why it would go in the STN forum.

Scimitar was armed with 52 disruptors, 27 photon torpedo launchers, and technobabble uber weapon that could kill all life on a planet. Also could fire weapons while remaining cloaked. Scimitar could not be detected by SF sensors while cloaked and could selective uncloak sections.

Crikey!

I liked how the Feds broke out the phaser rifles when battlestations was called. That made sense to me, in a universe with transporters. Pity we didn't see any shots of crewers getting into hazard suits. That'd have been really appropriate. Pity that won't happen, but, still...=)

paladin wrote:Scimitar was armed with 52 disruptors, 27 photon torpedo launchers, and technobabble uber weapon that could kill all life on a planet. Also could fire weapons while remaining cloaked. Scimitar could not be detected by SF sensors while cloaked and could selective uncloak sections.

What's the point of selectively uncloaking a section of your ship? If they can see part of your ship, they know where to shoot!

That's a LOT of weapons...

How big are one of those compared to a D'deridex, and how many weapons do a D'd carry?

Darth Wong wrote:

paladin wrote:Scimitar was armed with 52 disruptors, 27 photon torpedo launchers

Possibly the most 'over-armed' ship in ST ever. 52 disruptors I can understand ... but ... 27 photon torpedo tubes? Where?

Darth Wong wrote:

paladin wrote:Scimitar was armed with 52 disruptors, 27 photon torpedo launchers, and technobabble uber weapon that could kill all life on a planet. Also could fire weapons while remaining cloaked. Scimitar could not be detected by SF sensors while cloaked and could selective uncloak sections.

What's the point of selectively uncloaking a section of your ship? If they can see part of your ship, they know where to shoot!

Wait 'til you see the movie, Mike. There was a reason for it.

What, to make the ship look smaller?

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:That's a LOT of weapons...

How big are one of those compared to a D'deridex, and how many weapons do a D'd carry?

The Scimitar seemed to be roughly twice the width of the E-E's length, or about 1.3 km. That would make it roughly the same size as the D'deridex, although it had a LOT more mass.

If I remember correctly, the D'd carries 22 disruptors and then a heavy disruptor on the beak (roughly equivalent to the main phaser array on a Fed ship). She carries a mix of photon and plasma torps but I don't know many tubes she has.

As for the Scimitar's massive torp armament, it probably has to do with the fact that she's a pure weapons platform. The writers may have been inspired by the Andromeda Ascendant, which is exactly the same size as the Scimitar and carries 40 missile tubes. The E-E, by comparison, carries only about 6 tubes if I remember right. Pathetic damn Federation. Arm your ships for God's sake!

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:What, to make the ship look smaller?

Well, since this is a spoiler page...they were trying to make it look like their cloak was failing so they could lure in a warbird that was chasing them.

Darth Wong wrote:

paladin wrote:Scimitar was armed with 52 disruptors, 27 photon torpedo launchers, and technobabble uber weapon that could kill all life on a planet. Also could fire weapons while remaining cloaked. Scimitar could not be detected by SF sensors while cloaked and could selective uncloak sections.

What's the point of selectively uncloaking a section of your ship? If they can see part of your ship, they know where to shoot!

IIRC from what I hear, Shiron lowered that part of the cloak to make it look like he was in trouble, lured the warbirds in then at the last second made a move and blasted then with an alpha stirke at point blank, blowing one away and crippiling the other.

Chris O'Farrell wrote:IIRC from what I hear, Shiron lowered that part of the cloak to make it look like he was in trouble, lured the warbirds in then at the last second made a move and blasted then with an alpha stirke at point blank, blowing one away and crippiling the other.

Yep, exactly.

It's a pretty fricken' big ship, if it didn't outgun the Enterprise I'd be calling the competence of the Reman designers (within the context of Star Trek, we all know about universal ST stupidity, blah blah blah blah, ST sucks balls, trekkies are scum, god the constant need for disclaimers gets so tiresome) into serious question.

The E-E, by comparison, carries only about 6 tubes if I remember right. Pathetic damn Federation. Arm your ships for God's sake!

Uh, you apparently missed the part where they said "We're out of torpedoes." They ran out in a span of mere minutes. They didn't need more tubes, they needed more torpedoes period.

I think the Scimitar is simply more advanced than the Enterprise and is deadlier, kg for kg.

Uraniun235 wrote:Uh, you apparently missed the part where they said "We're out of torpedoes." They ran out in a span of mere minutes. They didn't need more tubes, they needed more torpedoes period.

I think the Scimitar is simply more advanced than the Enterprise and is deadlier, kg for kg.

No, I didn't miss anything. Even if Enterprise had just as many torps as Scimitar, she'd still be screwed. 6 tubes against 27...sheer volume of fire.

Captain Kruger wrote:Wait 'til you see the movie, Mike. There was a reason for it.

What is the point of having a ship be able to selectively cloak and uncloak itself? In the movie, that maneuver is used to lure the warbirds in closer for the Scimitar to open fire. There's just one problem with this (and Shinzon's own crew recognizes it instantly as a mistake)--the Scimitar, while cloaked, easily could have crept up behind the ships and opened fire for the same effect, and without being fired upon as heavily as it was without its cloak. There is no point of selectively uncloaking part of the vessel, if it can open fire while it is cloaked.

Captain Kruger wrote: The Scimitar seemed to be roughly twice the width of the E-E's length, or about 1.3 km. That would make it roughly the same size as the D'deridex, although it had a LOT more mass.

If I remember correctly, the D'd carries 22 disruptors and then a heavy disruptor on the beak (roughly equivalent to the main phaser array on a Fed ship). She carries a mix of photon and plasma torps but I don't know many tubes she has.

As for the Scimitar's massive torp armament, it probably has to do with the fact that she's a pure weapons platform. The writers may have been inspired by the Andromeda Ascendant, which is exactly the same size as the Scimitar and carries 40 missile tubes. The E-E, by comparison, carries only about 6 tubes if I remember right. Pathetic damn Federation. Arm your ships for God's sake!

The Enterprise-E is a warship. It clearly is armed as well as SF can practically make it.

Captain Kruger wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:Uh, you apparently missed the part where they said "We're out of torpedoes." They ran out in a span of mere minutes. They didn't need more tubes, they needed more torpedoes period.

I think the Scimitar is simply more advanced than the Enterprise and is deadlier, kg for kg.

No, I didn't miss anything. Even if Enterprise had just as many torps as Scimitar, she'd still be screwed. 6 tubes against 27...sheer volume of fire.

The Scimitar is a bigger ship and can afford to have the spaced used by all the extra mechanisms needed for 27 torpedo tubes. Frankly, the Scimitar deserves to win against a Soveriegn-class in a straight-up fight.

The Enterprise having so many tubes would either need to be a bigger ship (in which case you're not helping the firepower/volume ratio at all) or would have much less space with which to house torpedos. Plus, in an extended battle, more tubes would mean you'd run through torpedos more quickly, giving you a shorter time during which you're fully effective.

Considering that the Enterprise survived past the expenditure of all it's torpedos, it would not have mattered if it had more tubes. The damage done by the torpedo complement would still have been the same (if not less, since the tubes would take up more space), and they'd still be facing 70% shields with only their phasers.

Captain Kruger wrote:Wait 'til you see the movie, Mike. There was a reason for it.

Yes, but as MoO says, it sounds like a stupid reason.

Thats interesting to see that the Scimitar had so many torpedo tubes. However has anyone considered that these might be INFERIOR tubes them what the Sovereign class has? The Akira has 15 torpedo launchers, but can only fire at max three from any one launcher. The Scimitar might have a whole shitload of single or double fire launchers. That would not compare quite so well with a ship that has quad and even 6 time fire launchers. It would take 3 double launchers to equal a single 6 time launcher on the Sovereign class. The Sovereign has 6 such torpedo launchers. That could be 18 of the Scimitar's launchers. Then you have to factor in the Quantum torpedo launcher.

From all indications, the Scimitar does outgun the Sovereign class to a fair degree, however just because it seems to have massive numbers of weapons, the numbers themselves can be decieving.

One must also question how much antimatter they can load into the tubes, and how quickly. Antimatter is obviously volatile and dangerous stuff; you don't pump it like gasoline. A high rate of fire requires high rates of antimatter flow from the tanks into the torps, and that is inherently dangerous because high-speed pumping is probably riskier.

They're probably launching weaker torps for that reason, in the hopes that volume makes up for it. Perhaps.

AdmiralKanos wrote:One must also question how much antimatter they can load into the tubes, and how quickly. Antimatter is obviously volatile and dangerous stuff; you don't pump it like gasoline. A high rate of fire requires high rates of antimatter flow from the tanks into the torps, and that is inherently dangerous because high-speed pumping is probably riskier.

They're probably launching weaker torps for that reason, in the hopes that volume makes up for it. Perhaps.

Perhaps. However it would seem logical that torpedoes come with a standard yield and that would be a high power yield. This would reduce loading times with such standardization. This is somewhat plausible because most times they do not indicate max yield weapons in combat scenarios and the torpedoes do reasonable firepower.

I could see their torps being weaker, afterall this is their first generation of Photons torps, prior to that they used plasma torps.

Given that plasma torps were suppossedly more powerful, I wonder why they switched. Cost maybe?

Plasma torpedoes are when the ship dumps it's drive plasma into a magnetic field or something and fires it at a stationary target, or something on that order. It taxes their power systems pretty heavily.

AdmiralKanos wrote:

Captain Kruger wrote:Wait 'til you see the movie, Mike. There was a reason for it.

Yes, but as MoO says, it sounds like a stupid reason.

it's actually a pretty cool manouver