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In another thread, Patrick Degan brought up a good point about Janeway's promotion to admiral. Her father was an admiral, also. This could explain why she was selected for promotion ahead of officers like Picard, Data, and O'Brien. This is not the first example of a SF legacy. Captain Archer was given command of his vessel in large part because his daddy was a big-shot warp researcher, and Admiral Paris' estrangement with his son is clearly an enormously important and unusual circumstance in the fleet, brought on in large part by Tom's refusal to accept his father's career assistance.

The question then becomes: is SF an organization like modern Colleges, in that it actually does promote people in large part because of their parents' legacies to the cause, or is it actually the meritocracy it is usually slated as being? If it is influenced by familial and hereditary ties, how great is this influence? How deep and important are these bonds, and how much does it help to have someone pulling strings for you in Star Fleet?

Starfleet is both like, and not like the modern US military. In the US military you HAVE to get promotions every so often until a minimum rank (Commander, Captain, LT Colonel, Colonel, etc...) or you get booted. The fact that in an alternate universe Picard was a freaking 50 year old LT jg proves that Starfleet does not do this. That means people can sit on a rank for as long as they want, if they want to. We already know Captains can sit on their rank if they want to, which is EXACTLY what Picard and Riker have been doing. They are high enough up there that they don't really care. As for Data, he could very well be sitting on his rank. Then again, Shizon did call him a Commander, so he could finally have accepted a promotion.

Now as for O'Brien. He is an enlisted man. Yeah, B&B fucked up by not showing us many enlisted people, but they do infact exist in Trek. O'Brien is a Chief. I don't know if he got promoted ever, but this explains why he has never been shown to be an officer.

"Chief" O'Brien is the chief engineer on DS9. I think that it is just a nick-name they gave him, because he has ordered other officers aroung in the past.

It was a Q hallucination, not an alternate universe.

NecronLord wrote:It was a Q hallucination, not an alternate universe.

True, but Picard should have known that SF regs would have prevented him from being a 50 year old LT, and it would have broken much of the illusion, or he would have commented on it.

Master of Ossus wrote:"Chief" O'Brien is the chief engineer on DS9. I think that it is just a nick-name they gave him, because he has ordered other officers aroung in the past.

Well, O'Brien never had any rank insignia on his outfit other then this purple thing which the ST:E lists as Chief of Opperations.

Alyeska wrote:

Master of Ossus wrote:"Chief" O'Brien is the chief engineer on DS9. I think that it is just a nick-name they gave him, because he has ordered other officers aroung in the past.

Well, O'Brien never had any rank insignia on his outfit other then this purple thing which the ST:E lists as Chief of Opperations.

True. Maybe he has a special rank, or doesn't like to wear his rank insignia. That would be somewhat in keeping with his personality.

Didn't O'Brien used to be Transporter "Chief" or something? As his rank?

He went to the Academy, didn't he?

Darth Wong wrote:He went to the Academy, didn't he?

According to Startrek.com, he did enroll at Starfleet Academy and enlisted in Starfleet as a non-commissioned officer. Also gave his rank as Chief Petty Officer and Senior Chief Specialist. Maybe O'Brien attended the Academy for a short time before he dropped out and enlisted.

I do remember in an episode of DS9 where O'Brien said his rank was Senior Chief Specialist.

paladin wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:He went to the Academy, didn't he?

According to Startrek.com, he did enroll at Starfleet Academy and enlisted in Starfleet as a non-commissioned officer. Also gave his rank as Chief Petty Officer and Senior Chief Specialist. Maybe O'Brien attended the Academy for a short time before he dropped out and enlisted.

I do remember in an episode of DS9 where O'Brien said his rank was Senior Chief Specialist.

Or perhaps Academy is the generic term they use for all sorts of starfleet training. It sounds better than boot camp so I can see the namby pamby federation calling it that.

O'Brien makes a joke about having to call Nog Sir when he graduates.

The most inf we have ever gotten on the SF rank structure is probably here.

SERGEY
Always good to meet another chief
petty officer.
(sticks out hand)
Sergey Rozhenko, formerly of the
U.S.S. Intrepid.

O'BRIEN
Miles Edward O'Brien. Good to
meet you, sir.

SERGEY
Don't call me "sir", I used to

work
for a living.

They both laugh at the old joke. Worf is getting
increasingly uncomfortable.

HELENA
He's joking. The proudest day
of his life was when Worf earned
his commission.

SERGEY
Chief, can you imagine an old
enlisted man like me raising a
boy to be an officer?

We also know that Simon Tarsis an enlisted man didnt become an officer because he was eager to get into space but that he did attend the academy at some level since he sat under a tree Picard mentioned.

I've always noticed that the Admirals and some of the Senior captains treat starfleet like the Old Boys Club. Sitting around San Francisco with their smoking jackets, huge Cuban Cigars (grown on Cubanicus III, the real Cuba is still under Embargo since their leader is the frozen head of Castro) and snifters full of brandy remembering the good old days when you could kill aliens first and ask questions later.

Darth Fanboy wrote:I've always noticed that the Admirals and some of the Senior captains treat starfleet like the Old Boys Club. Sitting around San Francisco with their smoking jackets, huge Cuban Cigars (grown on Cubanicus III, the real Cuba is still under Embargo since their leader is the frozen head of Castro) and snifters full of brandy remembering the good old days when you could kill aliens first and ask questions later.

Scotty: There were 150 of us living in a shoebox in the middle of the road.

Kirk: A cardboard box?

Scotty: Aye.

Kirk: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a rolled up newspaper in a septic tank. We used to have to go up every morning, at six o'clock and clean the newspaper, go to work down the mill, fourteen hours a day, week in, week out, for six pence a week, and when we got home, our dad would slash us to sleep with his belt!

Picard: Luxory.

Alyeska wrote:As for Data, he could very well be sitting on his rank. Then again, Shizon did call him a Commander, so he could finally have accepted a promotion.

I thought I saw three full pips on Data's collar. Anyway, he was slated to be the next XO of the Enterprise after Riker left with Troi.