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In Star Trek: Nemesis, we are told by Doctor Crusher that "A microscopic amount [of Thalaron radiation] could kill everyone on" the Enterprise-E. This would be an astonishingly lethal substance--far more deadly even than ricin or similar neurotoxins available to us, today, but it simply is not what is observed in the movie. When the Scimitar is charging its weapon to destroy just the Enterprise-E, it is clear that the amount of Thalaron radiation in the reserve is immense, even though the ship is just trying to kill everyone on the E-E. More importantly, however, (as it could be argued that the weapon has no power settings), the amount that was used to kill the Romulan Senate was quite obviously MACROscopic. In fact, it was macroscopic to the point where only a blind idiot could not see it. Clearly Doctor Crusher was mistaken.

There are several possible explination.

Not all of what was seen could have been the radiation. Apparently, the radiation is difficult to generate, so it could have been a lot of by-product, and a little radiation.
Or, radiation of that amount was necessary to kill them in the few seconds necessary before they could call for help. A lesser does would still kill, but would take longer.
Or, it could have simply been gratuitous overkill, just to be on the safe side.

Master of Ossus wrote:In Star Trek: Nemesis, we are told by Doctor Crusher that "A microscopic amount [of Thalaron radiation] could kill everyone on" the Enterprise-E. This would be an astonishingly lethal substance--far more deadly even than ricin or similar neurotoxins available to us, today, but it simply is not what is observed in the movie. When the Scimitar is charging its weapon to destroy just the Enterprise-E, it is clear that the amount of Thalaron radiation in the reserve is immense, even though the ship is just trying to kill everyone on the E-E. More importantly, however, (as it could be argued that the weapon has no power settings), the amount that was used to kill the Romulan Senate was quite obviously MACROscopic. In fact, it was macroscopic to the point where only a blind idiot could not see it. Clearly Doctor Crusher was mistaken.

The phrase "microscopic amount of radiation" is mind-bogglingly stupid in its own right. "Microscopic" is a term normally used to describe physical objects, not radiation. It implies measurable dimensions, whereas radiation is a quantity that is not measurable by a dimension (there's frequency, but that only denotes energy level of individual quanta, not quantity of overall energy).

Darth Wong wrote:The phrase "microscopic amount of radiation" is mind-bogglingly stupid in its own right. "Microscopic" is a term normally used to describe physical objects, not radiation. It implies measurable dimensions, whereas radiation is a quantity that is not measurable by a dimension (there's frequency, but that only denotes energy level of individual quanta, not quantity of overall energy).

True. I suppose I should also point out that the concept of a weapon that selectively chooses organic material, but destroys it on a sub-atomic level, is also mind-bogglingly stupid.

Master of Ossus wrote:True. I suppose I should also point out that the concept of a weapon that selectively chooses organic material, but destroys it on a sub-atomic level, is also mind-bogglingly stupid.

Yes. Sci-fi technologies are often plot devices, but rarely are they such obvious and cheesy plot devices.

They would have been better off to leave in the original plot for the death of the Romulan Senate. A ship crashing into the building and killing everyone. But guess why that scene got axed...

So, this special kind of radiation is lethal only to organic matter at every wavelength it occurs at? And it leaves everything else untouched? What does it do to organic matter?

EDIT: By the way, why didn't Crusher just give everyone an innoculation against their cells being energized, like in First Contact?

Durandal wrote:So, this special kind of radiation is lethal only to organic matter at every wavelength it occurs at? And it leaves everything else untouched? What does it do to organic matter?

EDIT: By the way, why didn't Crusher just give everyone an innoculation against their cells being energized, like in First Contact?

It seems like it pretrifies organic matter.

I assume she didn't do that because this form of radiation acts to fast?

Kamakazie Sith wrote:

Durandal wrote:So, this special kind of radiation is lethal only to organic matter at every wavelength it occurs at? And it leaves everything else untouched? What does it do to organic matter?

EDIT: By the way, why didn't Crusher just give everyone an innoculation against their cells being energized, like in First Contact?

It seems like it pretrifies organic matter.

I assume she didn't do that because this form of radiation acts to fast?

Or the writers are plumb incompetent.

Kamakazie Sith wrote:

Durandal wrote:So, this special kind of radiation is lethal only to organic matter at every wavelength it occurs at? And it leaves everything else untouched? What does it do to organic matter?

EDIT: By the way, why didn't Crusher just give everyone an innoculation against their cells being energized, like in First Contact?

It seems like it pretrifies organic matter.

I assume she didn't do that because this form of radiation acts to fast?

Petrifies? I assume you mean it just freezes them or something? That would require the removal of energy from the organic matter, which is not something you do with radiation, which is commonly known for its tendency to excite organic matter and mutate it, also known as causing cancer.

Let me guess, this "radiation" is also clearly visible in a vacuum?

Durandal wrote:Petrifies? I assume you mean it just freezes them or something? That would require the removal of energy from the organic matter, which is not something you do with radiation, which is commonly known for its tendency to excite organic matter and mutate it, also known as causing cancer.

Let me guess, this "radiation" is also clearly visible in a vacuum?

Not really freezes. It kind of turns them into gray, zombie-looking things, and then they cease to live in some measure of pain. When the one Romulan Senator fell over, his carcass shattered. He wasn't really frozen, but it looked as if his body had lost its integrity, and he was dried out.

Master of Ossus wrote:

Durandal wrote:Petrifies? I assume you mean it just freezes them or something? That would require the removal of energy from the organic matter, which is not something you do with radiation, which is commonly known for its tendency to excite organic matter and mutate it, also known as causing cancer.

Let me guess, this "radiation" is also clearly visible in a vacuum?

Not really freezes. It kind of turns them into gray, zombie-looking things, and then they cease to live in some measure of pain. When the one Romulan Senator fell over, his carcass shattered. He wasn't really frozen, but it looked as if his body had lost its integrity, and he was dried out.

So, Shinzon found out about liquid nitrogen and then renamed it to "thalaron radiation"?

Durandal wrote:

Master of Ossus wrote:

Durandal wrote:Petrifies? I assume you mean it just freezes them or something? That would require the removal of energy from the organic matter, which is not something you do with radiation, which is commonly known for its tendency to excite organic matter and mutate it, also known as causing cancer.

Let me guess, this "radiation" is also clearly visible in a vacuum?

Not really freezes. It kind of turns them into gray, zombie-looking things, and then they cease to live in some measure of pain. When the one Romulan Senator fell over, his carcass shattered. He wasn't really frozen, but it looked as if his body had lost its integrity, and he was dried out.

So, Shinzon found out about liquid nitrogen and then renamed it to "thalaron radiation"?

No, I would say he found some really strong acne cleanser.

Sounds like Clear-ex on 'roids.

VF5SS wrote:Sounds like Clear-ex on 'roids.

That's true! It makes them look like the mummy from "The Mummy."

Thaleron radiation also doesn't seem to destroy all organic material, just extras. The wooden chairs that the senators were sitting on were uneffected by the stuff and they are organic. So it seems that Thaleron radiation is just your standard StarTrek Extra Killin' Green Shit.

Gil Hamilton wrote:Thaleron radiation also doesn't seem to destroy all organic material, just extras. The wooden chairs that the senators were sitting on were uneffected by the stuff and they are organic. So it seems that Thaleron radiation is just your standard StarTrek Extra Killin' Green Shit.

Are you sure they were wooden? I never really noticed, but I remember that most of the set was made of an excellent marble-like substance.

Master of Ossus wrote:

Gil Hamilton wrote:Thaleron radiation also doesn't seem to destroy all organic material, just extras. The wooden chairs that the senators were sitting on were uneffected by the stuff and they are organic. So it seems that Thaleron radiation is just your standard StarTrek Extra Killin' Green Shit.

Are you sure they were wooden? I never really noticed, but I remember that most of the set was made of an excellent marble-like substance.

The chairs look wooden to me, but I could be wrong.

Gil Hamilton wrote:

Master of Ossus wrote:

Gil Hamilton wrote:Thaleron radiation also doesn't seem to destroy all organic material, just extras. The wooden chairs that the senators were sitting on were uneffected by the stuff and they are organic. So it seems that Thaleron radiation is just your standard StarTrek Extra Killin' Green Shit.

Are you sure they were wooden? I never really noticed, but I remember that most of the set was made of an excellent marble-like substance.

The chairs look wooden to me, but I could be wrong.

Hmmm.... I think you're right. There are many pictures available, yet, but here's one of them:

http://www.scifispace.com/html/stx_10.php

The benches do appear to be made of wood, but in all honesty the picture size is so small that it is difficult to confirm.

It could be artificial wood. Maybe some replicated thing as opposed to making real wood. Or cutting a bunch of trees down.

neoolong wrote:It could be artificial wood. Maybe some replicated thing as opposed to making real wood. Or cutting a bunch of trees down.

The Senate would likely not spare any expense, especially since they had trees outside.

Master of Ossus wrote:

neoolong wrote:It could be artificial wood. Maybe some replicated thing as opposed to making real wood. Or cutting a bunch of trees down.

The Senate would likely not spare any expense, especially since they had trees outside.

That brings to mind a question: how did they control the spread and dispersal of the radiation in the senate?

Master of Ossus wrote:

neoolong wrote:It could be artificial wood. Maybe some replicated thing as opposed to making real wood. Or cutting a bunch of trees down.

The Senate would likely not spare any expense, especially since they had trees outside.

Mostly likely a gaff, but to be devil's advocate:

From our perspective the chair should be a wooden one. But for a different culture, an artificial chair made from some cool unreplicable substance, made to look like wood, might be what’s "in fashion."

Master of Ossus wrote:

Gil Hamilton wrote:Thaleron radiation also doesn't seem to destroy all organic material, just extras. The wooden chairs that the senators were sitting on were uneffected by the stuff and they are organic. So it seems that Thaleron radiation is just your standard StarTrek Extra Killin' Green Shit.

Are you sure they were wooden? I never really noticed, but I remember that most of the set was made of an excellent marble-like substance.

The chairs weren't wooden. Only the actors portraying the Romulan senators.

The first thing I thought when I saw the attack on the senate was, "oh shit, they popped some nano-tech death dust on the senate!" Imagine my dismay that it turned out to be "radiation".

On controling the dispersal, it was pretty evident that while the largish compact-type thingy was probably the source of the "radiation" (imagine I'm Dr. Evil), the senate's ceiling was rigged with some sort of device to redirect the effects of the "radiation".