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We've been having our fun pissing all over this mess of a movie in the various threads, but how about a dedicated thread to rip into all of Nemesis' scientific and technical goofs. There are so many obvious ones to start with, but one of the most basic is the hit on the Enterprise bridge. The resulting breach just about took out the entire forward bulkhead and main viewscreen; a rather large 3 by 5 metre hole.

I don't have any figures immediately at hand, but I'd think that the entire bridge should have depressurised in less than ten seconds, leaving no survivors and maybe even no bodies remaining on the command deck before the emergency forcefield finally comes up.

I haven't seen the film but i'm told there is ramming

The ramming incident has nothing to do with the hull breach in the bridge, but it in itself is a strange example of the weakness of the E-E and the Scimitar's armor and shields.

I think that the most obvious and laughable pseudo-science in the thing is the astonishingly powerful Thalaron radiation. According to Crusher, "A microscopic amount could kill everyone on [the Enterprise]." Okay, so we have microscopic radiation? What?

Moreover, we see clearly that the amount required to just kill the Romulan Senate is decidedly macroscopic, AND we see that the "radiation," even when highly concentrated, cannot kill the E-E's crew unless specifically fired. The radiation was fully charged when Data phasered the thing, and the E-E was less than a kilometer away, but there was no illness reported on the ship due to the release of the weapon?

Additionally, the idea that a form of radiation can selectively destroy ONLY organic matter, but do so on "a sub-atomic level" is ridiculous. I seriously cannot understand what the writers were thinking, or why this was remotely necessary for the story.

Besides, why bother using this uber-microwave with the 7-minute startup time when they can simply fire one of Robert Walper's multi-teraton max-yield photon torpedoes and cause a mass-extinction event?

Darth Wong wrote:Besides, why bother using this uber-microwave with the 7-minute startup time when they can simply fire one of Robert Walper's multi-teraton max-yield photon torpedoes and cause a mass-extinction event?

Hee hee, not only that, but Shinzon keeps his uber-microwave of death on the brigde of the Scimitar. I'm not joking. It's got an open conduit where all the Thaleron radiation passes through in a room right next to where the captain sits. This room doesn't have a door. Plus, all the Thaleron radiation shoots up through that room in a stream with no structure around it, or even a railing. I guess this wierd design is just in case that Shinzon has a hankerin' for some frozen burritos.

Patrick Degan wrote:I don't have any figures immediately at hand, but I'd think that the entire bridge should have depressurised in less than ten seconds, leaving no survivors and maybe even no bodies remaining on the command deck before the emergency forcefield finally comes up.

Right, I mentioned how rediculous this was in a different post. Assuming the bridge was the size that we could generally see, a hole that large would amount to a hole that was perhaps 15% of the area of the bridge surface area. Imagine a pressurized alumimum can with a hole suddenly cut out of the bottom that was about 1 inch x 1 inch, this seems about comparable in size ratios. How quickly would such a can depressurize? I think were talking more like 10 - 15 milliseconds rather than 10 - 15 seconds for complete bridge depressurization.

The only thing we can conclude then is that the Enterprise has no pressurized bulkheads, or at least a significant amount of the vessel is left open when only one room (the bridge) is depressurized, that is the only thing that could account for the long depresuraization times.

Even modern submarines have pressurized doors that can be closed in the event of a leak in the sub.

Modern federation engineering, gotta love it!

Makes you wonder what that 'battle bridge' is for anyway...

Matus

The real problem with the depressurization scene was the sheer volume of air that was moving. It was clearly moving at an enormously quick speed, in order for it to be able to physically pull crewmembers to a horizontal position. If it was moving that quickly, it should have been removed from the bridge at an enormously quick rate, seeing as how the bridge is no more than thirty meters in any direction, and substantially less in most.

Unless the Enterprises environmental systems are designed to pump in gas as quickly as it exits when there is a major hull breach.

DocMoriartty wrote:Unless the Enterprises environmental systems are designed to pump in gas as quickly as it exits when there is a major hull breach.

I doubt it. There are some examples of depressurization in TNG, and in those we see the same kind of thing going on, even though the ship is trying to actually create a vacuum in a particular area.

Another thing I'm curious about... why did the Scimitar have that massive two story bridge? Correct me if everything I've ever known about ship design is wrong, but don't you want to maximize as much space as possible by NOT having luxurious frivolous empty space that does nothing?

Silver wrote:Another thing I'm curious about... why did the Scimitar have that massive two story bridge? Correct me if everything I've ever known about ship design is wrong, but don't you want to maximize as much space as possible by NOT having luxurious frivolous empty space that does nothing?

Well, they need a funky side chamber wear their dangerous uber-radiation shoots up through to make it convenient for Data to shoot it.

Silver wrote:Another thing I'm curious about... why did the Scimitar have that massive two story bridge? Correct me if everything I've ever known about ship design is wrong, but don't you want to maximize as much space as possible by NOT having luxurious frivolous empty space that does nothing?

That ship had an enormous amount of wasted space. Any amount of space will be at a premium for any space going vessel, especcially a warship. Just look at the space on combat ships of any 20th century Navy. Open areas are used and or dedicated for a purpose, like hanger bays.(and even the hanger bays on the Scimitar were wasted, in my opinion)

How about Computer Security for the Remans? Data tried several access codes to get into the hangar, until one of them worked. Even Windows locks you out after the third one (default setting).

Or the shield protecting the warp core? Shields require active protection, where a bulkhead (or ablative armor) simply works. Also, that first shot from the Scimitar brought down those shields too.

Be cool to see ablative bulkheads popping into place around the warp core.

[edit - 12-18-2002 1244 GMT - by Coalition]

One thing I forgot to add was when the Remans were boarding the Enterprise. They have trouble with bright light, yet they were walking around the Enterprise, with no goggles (or anything else to reduce the light), and not having any troubles? They should have been covering their eyes within the first few seconds. Or shooting out the lights.

Another rip from me would be that hidious design for the scorpion; ie, mounting the frickin' disrupter on *TOP* of the cockpit area!! Putting a high discharge energy weapon firing just above the cockpit would/should blind the crew while they're trying to use the ol' eyeball MK1. It's a wonder they also didn't fry in the cocpit seats.

Silver wrote:Another thing I'm curious about... why did the Scimitar have that massive two story bridge? Correct me if everything I've ever known about ship design is wrong, but don't you want to maximize as much space as possible by NOT having luxurious frivolous empty space that does nothing?

It's to make it look big and powerful, so that Darkstar clones can say it would take out an ISD with one shot.

EmperorMing wrote:Another rip from me would be that hidious design for the scorpion; ie, mounting the frickin' disrupter on *TOP* of the cockpit area!! Putting a high discharge energy weapon firing just above the cockpit would/should blind the crew while they're trying to use the ol' eyeball MK1. It's a wonder they also didn't fry in the cocpit seats.

It just speaks for the weakness of Trek weapons. Remember that big bulky shoulder-mounted weapon that Worf had in STI? It seemed to do less damage than a modern hand grenade. Trek weapons are just weak in comparison to Star Wars, and, in some cases, even weak in comparison to modern weapons today.

Am I the only one that thought how the Disruptor on the Scorpion destroyed the door in the Sci? Instead of melting a hole, it seemed to randomly distrubute energy throughout the door and blow chunks away.