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http://stardestroyer.dyndns-home.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8379
And how is it reality warping for someone to enjoy Nemesis more then AOTC? That is their personal preference. Who are you to dictate what they believe or prefer?Master of Ossus wrote:Okay, everyone. I know that many of us have known this for some time, but this is ridiculous. For everyone who doesn't believe that Trekkies are willing to warp (pun intended) reality to make ST seem better than anything else, take a look at this thread from our friends at Trekbbs.
http://www.trekbbs.com/ubb/Forum31/HTML/001793.html
I see. So because you disliked Nemesis, those trekkies must be on crack because they like it more then AOTC.Darksider wrote:what the hell are these trekkies smoking???? no sereously what movie did they see cause ST nemisis plain sucked
Sod off.I see. And when many of the SD.net members hound other people for their negative statements about Warsies, thats just fine? I get sick and fucking tired of the double standard. You can disagree with people on their tastes, but you don't get off insulting them for that.Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Alyeska, you really need to stop being so damn defensive about virtually everything negative that's said about ST.
Did you read their comments? Some of them consider the PLOT to be better than that of AotC. Others claim that Nemesis is the greatest Trek film of all. Others are insisting that it was robbed by the critics.Alyeska wrote:And how is it reality warping for someone to enjoy Nemesis more then AOTC? That is their personal preference. Who are you to dictate what they believe or prefer?Master of Ossus wrote:Okay, everyone. I know that many of us have known this for some time, but this is ridiculous. For everyone who doesn't believe that Trekkies are willing to warp (pun intended) reality to make ST seem better than anything else, take a look at this thread from our friends at Trekbbs.
http://www.trekbbs.com/ubb/Forum31/HTML/001793.html
Hell yes!!!!!!!! at least nemesis had some depth and intrihue to it. AOTC was just putting a bunch of fancy effects on screen.
One guy even says Nemesis is as good in SFX as AotC.^^^^ - ummmmm errrrr - uhhhhh - really? Nemesis easily surpassed AOTC in character motivation and acting. the script was very tight, even riker following the viceroy down the jefferies tube was tangled in character motivation.
Sorry Alyeska, that IS reality warping. Speaking of reality warping:AOTC vs Nemesis in effects. thats a tough one, because AOTC had so many. Nemesis had superb effect that rivals anything in AOTC but there was about 1/4 the amount in nemesis than in AOTC - so im still not sure.
More of them are simply blinded by their faith.That said, without comparing it to Trek I was deeply dissapointed in the latest Star Wars movie; it made the first prequel seem tightly scripted and well-acted, which it most certainly was not.
And still others didn't even bother to watch the movie before chiming in, NTM that this guy is clearly wrong.Trek will always be first and foremost for me over Wars.
For all its problems, the Nemesis script is far better than the finished AOTC film.
I remembering feeling let down by ESB when I saw it in the theaters; perhaps that colors my view of it.
All personal opinion and taste. Nothing worth calling them "Most Pathetic Trekkies ever". I should think that title would be reserved for the likes of WingZero or DarkStar.Master of Ossus wrote:Did you read their comments? Some of them consider the PLOT to be better than that of AotC. Others claim that Nemesis is the greatest Trek film of all. Others are insisting that it was robbed by the critics.
You didn't even bother reading the thread on the link I provided before saying that it was a matter of personal taste. Had you read some of them say that the SFX in NEM were better than the SFX in AotC, it is inarguably a warping of reality.Alyeska wrote:I see. And when many of the SD.net members hound other people for their negative statements about Warsies, thats just fine? I get sick and fucking tired of the double standard. You can disagree with people on their tastes, but you don't get off insulting them for that.Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Alyeska, you really need to stop being so damn defensive about virtually everything negative that's said about ST.
And that is their personal opinion that the sound effects were better in Nemesis then AOTC. Nothing to call them complete idiots about.Master of Ossus wrote:You didn't even bother reading the thread on the link I provided before saying that it was a matter of personal taste. Had you read some of them say that the SFX in NEM were better than the SFX in AotC, it is inarguably a warping of reality.Alyeska wrote:I see. And when many of the SD.net members hound other people for their negative statements about Warsies, thats just fine? I get sick and fucking tired of the double standard. You can disagree with people on their tastes, but you don't get off insulting them for that.Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Alyeska, you really need to stop being so damn defensive about virtually everything negative that's said about ST.
Oh, come now. How much of this is personal preference? At the very least the ones who think that AotC has more plot-holes than NEM are watching the movies they want to see, instead of the ones on the screen.Alyeska wrote: And that is their personal opinion that the sound effects were better in Nemesis then AOTC. Nothing to call them complete idiots about.
Actually, SFX means Sound Effects. VFX means Visual Effects. CGI, well thats self explanitory.Spanky The Dolphin wrote:SFX means "special effects", Alyeska, not "sound effects".
YOU see more plot holes in Nemesis. YOU think AOTC has better SFX and VFX. THEY have a DIFFERENT opinion then YOU. Yours is no more correct then theirs. It is personal OPINION, not FACT.Master of Ossus wrote:Oh, come now. How much of this is personal preference? At the very least the ones who think that AotC has more plot-holes than NEM are watching the movies they want to see, instead of the ones on the screen.Alyeska wrote: And that is their personal opinion that the sound effects were better in Nemesis then AOTC. Nothing to call them complete idiots about.
Besides, it is quite obvious which one has better SFX. Would it be acceptable if I called them blind, instead of stupid?
Agreed. That can be measured objectively. It is not a matter of personal taste, except when there are two movies that are stylistically different in their SFX, as opposed to being qualitatively. In this case, the two are qualitatively different.Alyeska wrote:Actually, SFX means Sound Effects. VFX means Visual Effects. CGI, well thats self explanitory.Spanky The Dolphin wrote:SFX means "special effects", Alyeska, not "sound effects".
Here's an idea. Since this board is running rampant with bashers who have seen the movie and obviously brought a pen and notebook to write down every freaking single plot hole or nit-pick instead of looking for the good in the movie and be happy to even get a new film, here's is what we should do.
TPTB should not make another Star trek film until they get approval of the cast, producers, directors, and script writers here first. Once this well learned and open minded bunch of posters who occupy this board give our approval (by a vast majority vote...only those of captain rank or higher can vote), then the movie makers can proceed with drafting a script.
Once a draft is written, it must be immediatly posted here so that we all can bash it and tell this professional writer how full of shit he is and how he doesnt know Trek as well as we do (sure Logan claimed he is a trek fan, but if he was he wouldnt have ruined this movie for all the bashers and would have written it just for them). So once we shove the writer out of an airlock and curse him for betraying the faith we had in him, we hire another writer and do the same thing, ditto to another after him...and so on and so on till we finally concluded that the only way is to write the film ourselves!
Once again the whole script will be voted on for approval in the same way as mentioned above till we get a script we all can agree truly represents the vision of Gene Roddenberry- a man we all thank for giving us trek(but who 99.9% of us never met and are sure we know Treks heart better than he even did).
The script is approved and when we all are completely convinced there are no plot holes and every character is given exactly the same screen time and major development, we send it off to be filmed. Of course the actors are expected to look as young and fit as they were when they first arrived on the scene since we seem to hate our characters ageing and growing. Plastic surgery, tummy tucks, and rogaine are the actors responsibilty. If they want to be a part of "our" trek, they must pay.
Also the FX team must make every shot as real as possible. All footage must be submitted for download so we can approve and correct them if a starship looks fake or the photon torpedo didnt glow as brightly as we think it should. When the Fx are done, and the primary shooting over, we all get to watch it and vote if it is suitable for us. Certainly it will pass then, and we can vote on how to promote it.
Then its just a short impulse cruise to the theaters and it will surely make 100 million opening day! And when the Oscars are handed out, we can all go get our best picture award. Hope all our names fit on all those statues.
Then everyone here will be happy!
OF COURSE BY THEN WE WILL ALL BE 90 YEARS OLD TO DEAD!!!!
QUITCHA BITCHIN AND BE HAPPY YOU GET WHAT YOU DO AND APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS MADE TO KEEP TREK GOING!!!!!
He does have a point in that people are over analyzing the movie WAY to much. Sure, I bitch about contradictions in Trek movies, but that didn't make TWOK a bad movie.Master of Ossus wrote:Besides, the people over there don't respect other people's opinions. Here's an example:
http://www.trekbbs.com/ubb/Forum31/HTML/001759.html
Here's an idea. Since this board is running rampant with bashers who have seen the movie and obviously brought a pen and notebook to write down every freaking single plot hole or nit-pick instead of looking for the good in the movie and be happy to even get a new film, here's is what we should do.
TPTB should not make another Star trek film until they get approval of the cast, producers, directors, and script writers here first. Once this well learned and open minded bunch of posters who occupy this board give our approval (by a vast majority vote...only those of captain rank or higher can vote), then the movie makers can proceed with drafting a script.
Once a draft is written, it must be immediatly posted here so that we all can bash it and tell this professional writer how full of shit he is and how he doesnt know Trek as well as we do (sure Logan claimed he is a trek fan, but if he was he wouldnt have ruined this movie for all the bashers and would have written it just for them). So once we shove the writer out of an airlock and curse him for betraying the faith we had in him, we hire another writer and do the same thing, ditto to another after him...and so on and so on till we finally concluded that the only way is to write the film ourselves!
Once again the whole script will be voted on for approval in the same way as mentioned above till we get a script we all can agree truly represents the vision of Gene Roddenberry- a man we all thank for giving us trek(but who 99.9% of us never met and are sure we know Treks heart better than he even did).
The script is approved and when we all are completely convinced there are no plot holes and every character is given exactly the same screen time and major development, we send it off to be filmed. Of course the actors are expected to look as young and fit as they were when they first arrived on the scene since we seem to hate our characters ageing and growing. Plastic surgery, tummy tucks, and rogaine are the actors responsibilty. If they want to be a part of "our" trek, they must pay.
Also the FX team must make every shot as real as possible. All footage must be submitted for download so we can approve and correct them if a starship looks fake or the photon torpedo didnt glow as brightly as we think it should. When the Fx are done, and the primary shooting over, we all get to watch it and vote if it is suitable for us. Certainly it will pass then, and we can vote on how to promote it.
Then its just a short impulse cruise to the theaters and it will surely make 100 million opening day! And when the Oscars are handed out, we can all go get our best picture award. Hope all our names fit on all those statues.
Then everyone here will be happy!
OF COURSE BY THEN WE WILL ALL BE 90 YEARS OLD TO DEAD!!!!
QUITCHA BITCHIN AND BE HAPPY YOU GET WHAT YOU DO AND APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS MADE TO KEEP TREK GOING!!!!!
Recycled TWOK plot eh? TWOK had an evil clone, the main enemy taking over an enemy government, an evil android, an enemy ship that vastly outgunned the heroes ship, a battle in a nebula, the son of the captain, the lover of the captain...Darth Fanboy wrote:Its obvious to anyone with two eyes that the space battles in Nemesis were just crap, the big bad new Scimitar was killed by two big green paper airplanes and a ship designed so that it implodes worse than a sand castle at high tide. If you're really a fan of trek (i'm not saying I am but I enjoy TOS and movies 1-6) you would recognize the recycled plat from Wrath of Kahn and petition Paramount to get some better writers so that TNG would go out on a better note.
I was thinking it was more to cater to the massive amounts of Boba Fett fans who want more Fett. Not necessarily to apologize for Boba's death.Vympel wrote:Lucas does listen to the fans methinks. Jango Fett was a massive apology for killing Boba in ROTJ it seems.
Darth Fanboy wrote:*ending spoiler*
Maybe the fans do need to give some more input though, maybe not the step by step through enema of the entire production staff but as to the script itself and a few of the details. Star Wars isn't perfect but AoTC gave the fans a lot of what they want, Lightsabers, Explosions, Amidala's midriff....
All Nemesis did was kill Data plus marry Riker and Troi, they could have done one of those cliche reunion TV shows for that.