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As a fan of a dying art, I hve to say that Nemesis was a good movie. Only if you ignore the rechnobabble does it get good, and that's ot very hard. The openng scene is shocking, and the space battle is lke 20 minutes long, pretty good for a Trek movie.

See the movie, if you wait for it on video and DVD, your not giving it a chance.

So only if you ignore the treknobabble (One of the things that seperates Sci-Fi from regular drama/action) does it become a good movie.

So as a movie it's not that bad but as a Trek it's crap.

I can agree with that.

Well, what do you expect? TUC? I mean, sorry, but Trek is not the only thing that is dying here. Have a look at ANH and then TPM,now tae a look at TESB and then see AOTC.

Both universes are dying, so don't complain about Nemesis being the worst film ever.

Since when do empty-headed sci-fi films count as a "dying art"?

Except AOTC was an excellant film in it's own right.

AOTC was two different movies, one ended at them leaving Tatooine and the other began when they arrived at Geonosis.

I have my own issues with AOTC (Read the novels thought that GL might actually consider them when making movies) and am not talking about AOTC in the first place.

Nemesis was an ok movie if you removed ST from the monicurr(sp). I mean clones are cool, space is cool, ships are cool. But that film was crap with Trek attached to it. They HAD a good franchise and it's rotting. I say let it rott.

Nemesis was an ok movie if you removed ST from the monicurr(sp). I mean clones are cool, space is cool, ships are cool. But that film was crap with Trek attached to it. They HAD a good franchise and it's rotting. I say let it rott.

So, you are saying that it was a bad movie because it had the Trek name on it?

That sounds a little biased.

FaxModem1 wrote:AOTC was two different movies, one ended at them leaving Tatooine and the other began when they arrived at Geonosis.

LMAO! So was RotJ. So was ANH. So was Nemesis. Read my article on AotC, and tell me what you think after that.

FaxModem1 wrote:

Nemesis was an ok movie if you removed ST from the monicurr(sp). I mean clones are cool, space is cool, ships are cool. But that film was crap with Trek attached to it. They HAD a good franchise and it's rotting. I say let it rott.

So, you are saying that it was a bad movie because it had the Trek name on it?

That sounds a little biased.

That's not what he said. You're using a strawman debate tactic. He said that the movie sucked, AND the fact that it attached itself to Star Trek does not save it. He is further saying that the weakness of "Nemesis" makes the franchise weaker, and he advocates abandoning the Star Trek universe, at least for now.

That's not what he said. You're using a strawman debate tactic. He said that the movie sucked, AND the fact that it attached itself to Star Trek does not save it. He is further saying that the weakness of "Nemesis" makes the franchise weaker, and he advocates abandoning the Star Trek universe, at least for now.

What is this strawman tactic? You seem to be getting you own opnion from what he said.

FaxModem1 wrote:

That's not what he said. You're using a strawman debate tactic. He said that the movie sucked, AND the fact that it attached itself to Star Trek does not save it. He is further saying that the weakness of "Nemesis" makes the franchise weaker, and he advocates abandoning the Star Trek universe, at least for now.

What is this strawman tactic? You seem to be getting you own opnion from what he said.

Strawman means that you are misrepresenting what he actually said, and then attacking your dishonest portrayal of what he said. Here's his quote:

But that film was crap with Trek attached to it. They HAD a good franchise and it's rotting. I say let it rott.

That says, "The film was not good. It had Trek attached to it. They have previously had a quality franchise, but now it is rotting. I don't think they should try to revive it, anymore, as it is rotting for a reason." You took this to mean, "The film sucked because Star Trek was attached to it." That is clearly not what he said.

(rereads entire thing)

whatever

Master of Ossus wrote:

But that film was crap with Trek attached to it. They HAD a good franchise and it's rotting. I say let it rott.

That says, "The film was not good. It had Trek attached to it. They have previously had a quality franchise, but now it is rotting. I don't think they should try to revive it, anymore, as it is rotting for a reason." You took this to mean, "The film sucked because Star Trek was attached to it." That is clearly not what he said.

Uhh, look at the context he put it in and another post of his:

"Nemesis was an ok movie if you removed ST from the monicurr(sp)" and "So as a movie it's not that bad but as a Trek it's crap."

You're way overanalyzing his sentence structure. Both of the above sentences have the same meaning as what you quoted was intended to say.

Hmmm... possibly. I think what he was saying was that it was disappointing as a ST film.

HemlockGrey wrote:Except AOTC was an excellant film in it's own right.

I agree. Was it as good as The original trilogy? I didn't think so, but it wasn't very far behind.

Master of Ossus wrote:Read my article on AotC, and tell me what you think after that.

Where is the article? I'd like to read it.

Darth Akwat Kbrana wrote:

Master of Ossus wrote:Read my article on AotC, and tell me what you think after that.

Where is the article? I'd like to read it.

My article can be found on this very site.

http://stardestroyer.net/AOTC/Symbolism.html

Not to hijack the thread, but since AOTC has already been mentioned:

Rebecca was talking about TPM and AOTC the other day, and she commented on an obvious theme that nobody seemed to pick up on. During and before the podrace, Anakin's mother in TPM has amazingly strong faith in her son. She believes in him, and so does Qui-Gon. Rebecca feels that as she watches the film, she can feel this strength of faith translating into Anakin's own belief in himself, buoying his spirits, and keeping him from despair even when the chips are down.

But in AOTC, his mother is gone and Qui-Gon is dead. Obi-Wan is his steward now, and Obi-Wan has no faith in him whatsoever. He clearly does not trust Anakin to do the right thing or even the competent thing. He second-guesses Anakin at every turn, upbraids him in front of Amidala for promising her that they would find her would-be assassins, criticizes him constantly, etc.

Now, everyone who watched AOTC noticed how Obi-Wan had no faith in him. But few seemed to think back to TPM and notice the contrast. In AOTC, when the chips are down, Anakin is not buoyed; he has power, but not strength of spirit. He does fall into despair, followed by a bloody rampage of vengeance. His mother was the only person in the universe who believed in him, and she believed in him right up to the end. Even through her torture, she believed he would come. With her gone, no one believes in him.

Just another theme buried in TPM/AOTC in case people didn't notice. And yes, Rebecca pointed this out, not me. And interestingly enough, we weren't watching or talking about Star Wars when she brought it up; we were driving to a restaurant.

That's true, Darth Wong, I had not thought of that. It's just one of those reminders that something in a movie or a book can be blatantly obvious to one person and completely obscure to another, until pointed out.

FaxModem1 wrote:As a fan of a dying art, I hve to say that Nemesis was a good movie. Only if you ignore the rechnobabble does it get good, and that's ot very hard. The openng scene is shocking, and the space battle is lke 20 minutes long, pretty good for a Trek movie.

See the movie, if you wait for it on video and DVD, your not giving it a chance.

I am going to disagree with you on this one and say it was a bad movie. The usual Trek stuff aside, some things did not make sense. I felt the plot was weak and there was no sense for the ship to be where it was. The only thing good going for it was the battle sequence; I will agree on that one.

FaxModem1 wrote:See the movie, if you wait for it on video and DVD, your not giving it a chance.

Based on what I've heard, I'm giving it more chance than it deserves by intending to rent it on DVD someday.

FaxModem1 wrote:See the movie, if you wait for it on video and DVD, your not giving it a chance.

Sorry, but I only reserve the cinema experiance for films that deserve it, like LOTR or SW...

FaxModem1 wrote:See the movie, if you wait for it on video and DVD, your not giving it a chance.

I gave the movie a chance, then, by your definition. It didn't deserve it.