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Nemesis ends with Shinzon dead and the Remans pretty ship destroyed, now what is next? a war between the Romulans and the Federation, or are things being resolved between the two empires?

Just curious

I think more friendly relations between Feds and romulans would be more likely, but I haven't watched the movie yet so I can only guess, but that's my opinion.

They act as though this never happened when they make the next putrified pile of donkey shit movie in two or three years.

Darth Wong wrote:They act as though this never happened when they make the next putrified pile of donkey shit movie in two or three years.

Yeah, when was the last time something happened in Star Trek that had a lasting effect? Seriously. I can't remember.

That's bizarre. It adds credence to the 1984-esque atmosphere of the Trek universe.

FaxModem1 wrote:Nemesis ends with Shinzon dead and the Remans pretty ship destroyed, now what is next? a war between the Romulans and the Federation, or are things being resolved between the two empires?

Just curious

They probably are. The military appears to have turned against Shinzon, in the end, although it is probable that the Romulans would have a civil war, destroying a large quantity of their military resources in the process. The UFP and Klingons would have to get involved, and the winner would dictate the future policy of the RSE.

At the very end of the movie, Riker does make reference to the Romulans wishing to talk.


Donatra said they gained an ally in the Romulan empire, but whether she'll survive the treason trial is yet to be seen.


I say the Feds and the Rommies will have much more peaceful relations now.

We know from the loss of the Ent-C that selfless actions defending another government are well rewarded in Trek politics. I would guess that the RSE and Federation are pretty friendly now.

Howedar wrote:We know from the loss of the Ent-C that selfless actions defending another government are well rewarded in Trek politics. I would guess that the RSE and Federation are pretty friendly now.

It is unclear whether that was unique to the Klingons, who might have thought that it was "an honorable death" to die for the crew of the E-C. I would suspect that this sentiment is unshared by the Romulans, given their known predilection. By far the most likely outcome for this is a Romulan civil war.

It seems somewhat unlikely that the Romulan Star Empire would fall into a state of civil war in the aftermath of the film. As the opening sequence of the film suggests, the Romulan state is actually democratic in its operation and government (even if the government is not democratic in composition), and as Shinzon of Remus notes when narrating his biography to Captain Picard, governments change on Romulus with some degree of regularity.

Based on a cursory, Romulus's government seems to resemble a parliamentarian system, wherein the praetor is the leader of the majority of the senators, even if the senators are not allied formally in political parties. It is not a despotism or autocracy, but rather a ruling aristocracy, much as the actual Roman Republic functioned.

As the Praetor acidly notes in the beginning of the film, the military does not dictate policy on Romulus. Nor does the Tal Shiar; as seen in "In the Pale Moonlight," Senator Vreenak, the Secretary of the War Plans Council who negotiated the non-aggression pact with the Dominion, was also the Vice-Chair of the Tal Shiar. The Imperial Senate is quite clearly ascendant in Romulan affairs, and the military and intelligence apparatus are inferior.

Indeed, the Star Empire appears to have a functioning civil government, quite unlike the feudal disorder of the Klingon Empire. The military and intelligence apparatus are clearly subordinate to the civil government, and, judging by the Senate's calm demeanour when the Praetor dismissed the officers, it clearly expected no further debate on the matter.

Given that there is a functioning government (even without the leadership, assassinated as it was by Shinzon and his conspirators), it is unlikely that the state will degenerate into disorder. Rather, a new Senate will more likely be put into power, and a new Praetor selected, per usual procedure, if under somewhat unusual circumstances.

The Star Empire's reaction to the coup d'état can take one of three probable courses of action:

First, the Senate and military may decide to carry on as nothing happened, despite the clear threat to security posed by the affair. This is not, in fact, without historical precedent; the absolutist Louis XVIII serenely pretended that there had never been such a thing as the Hundred Days, and that officers and nobles had never betrayed him and flocked to Napoléon's banner. This may be a course of action chosen by those who wish to avoid reactionary politics, and to avoid having to purge the once-treacherous-but-now-contrite upper ranks of a military, as would have been necessary for Louis to do.

Secondly, as the coup was primarily the work of hardliners, the Senate might choose simply to disregard the hardliners and pursue a policy of glasnost with the United Federation. In this fashion, the coup might be seen as the last hurrah for the hardliners, much as the failed coup attempt against General-Secretary Gorbachev in AD 1991 was shortly followed by the end of the Cold War. Based on Captain Riker's (feel free to shudder at the thought) dialogue at the end of the film, this would appear to be what has happened.

Symbolically, this second possibility would be rather ironic, as it would recast the Romulan Star Empire as the Communists, only rather than representing the People's Republic of China (as it did in the original series), the Star Empire would play the part of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics -- as did the Klingon Empire in the original series and (according to one interpretation) in The Undiscovered Country.

Thirdly, the new Senate might simply purge all the conspirators, and carry on the policies of those leaders liquidated (or, perhaps more accurately, petrified) by the Reman coup. This course would resemble the Stuart response to the English Civil War, as Charles II was, strictly speaking, no less absolutist than his father Charles I, and even dared the Parliament to revolt again in a game of brinkmanship.

This course of action might suit the Romulan temperament as it is generally depicted in the series, as they are usually protrayed as conservative and possessed of what might be called Franquist masterly inertia -- the preference to do nothing at all rather than the wrong thing. This course of action would allow them to observe the long-term effects of Shinzon's coup, and respond accordingly.

Although the third possibility appears to be the most realistic on a cursory examination, the film itself tends to suggest that it is the second course of action being pursued -- that liberal leadership (at least, liberal in foreign affairs) has been put in place on Romulus.

(Of course, if this is indeed the case, and the Romulans have been cast in the rôle of the Soviet Union, then it would reinforce perceptions of Nemesis being some sort of remake of The Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country.)

One question, of course, is what course of action will be taken by Romulus against Remus? If the Romulans hated the Remans before, how much moreso will they resent them now? Might this be something like Spartacus's slave revolt in AC 73 -- a revolt that was punished by Marcus Licinius Crassus and Cnaeus Pompeius Magnus with the crucifixion of 6,000 slaves?

Certainly, like the Romans, the Romulans, for all their civilisation and democratic government for Romulans, are not at all averse to the brutal repression and subjugation of other races (or species, as the case may be) -- and, given how much the Romulans are moulded after the Romans in many respects, they may very well share the Romans' notorious ruthlessness at punishing rebellion. After all, Iulius Caesar's idea of mercy when dealing with a revolt was to cut off all the rebels' hands.

The Jewish revolt in AD 66 -- 73 resulted in the deliberate Roman incineration of the Temple in Jerusalem, the enslavement of thousands of Jews, and the obliteration of Jewish national autonomy. The failed revolt of AD 132 -- 135 resulted in the complete banishment of Jews from Jerusalem, and, for a time, even basic observance of Judaism was made a capital offence.

Given that the United Federation knew little of Remus prior to the coup, it is quite possible that it would also fail to notice if the planet were suddenly... depopulated.

In the tradition of 1984, the Remans may cease to exist. They may never have existed.

Although the third possibility appears to be the most realistic on a cursory examination, the film itself tends to suggest that it is the second course of action being pursued -- that liberal leadership (at least, liberal in foreign affairs) has been put in place on Romulus.

Unification hinted that Romulans were beginning to grow tired of the continuing Federation/Romulan hostilities.