I get it now. I really get it...

[CorSec]

There was a time, not too long ago mind you, when I considered myself a fan of Star Trek. For me, the entertainment value was found in the drama of the space setting. I enjoyed it because it happened in space. I gleefully overlooked such annoyances as timeline continuity and treknobabble solutions. Even now, I really try to enjoy the shows on that level, but lately even my desire for naiveté fails me. But my disappointment is mild, because now I am armed with knowledge of just how very bad those crutches have been for the franchise of Star Trek.

This weekend, I caught an episode of Voyager that I had not seen before. Just which episode it was isn't important, but what a character said simply put the final nail (among the hundreds of others) in the coffin for me.

"We're using a triaxlated signal on a covariant subspace band..."

I simply had no other recourse but to laugh. If I hadn't laughed, I would have cried at the utter vacuousness of the sentence. What's worse is that it wasn't said just once. No, no no! It was said at least twice.

"They're using a triaxlated signal on a covariant subspace band..."

If I believed in a god, I would have pleaded for it to make it so I would not have to hear such crap, ever again.

Though the sets were cheesy, TOS still rules the day with at the least half decent plots (though continuity never seemed to be a concern). The Next Generation was a more complete vision from Gene Rodenberry, but it failed because of hackneyed writing at some point in its tenure. I didn't get to watch DS9 as much as I wanted, so I have no misgivings for it. (Other than the excuses to have the characters somewhere else and giving them advanced shuttles, aka Runabouts, and then the Defiant to do it.) Voyager and Enterprise, no matter how much I wanted to like them, are, or will be, failures because they suffer from the malady of stupid writers.

What am I really saying? Thanks, Mike Wong for opening my eyes and thanks to the rest of you.

[SPOOFE]

I think the reason TOS was superior is because it never seemed to take itself too seriously. It was cheap space entertainment. TNG tried to present itself as a bit more highbrow, but kept a bit of the campy space opera of TOS (at least in the early seasons... the later seasons made a full transition to "We're REAL Sci-Fi!" bullshit... its high point was around seasons 5 and 6). DS9's episodes about the Dominion War were good, but the "filler" episodes - the ones that they threw together so they could stretch out the story (else the entire story arch would take up a single season, at best) - were absolute crap. And by the time it got to Voyager... well, the idiocy was so blatant that there're only a handful of episodes that are good.

[Shinova]

One shouldn't take ST as a show of accurate science; more like a source of entertainment.

As purely a form of entertainment, even Voyager was somewhat enjoyable. I don't really pay attention to the science.

But that's just me, and I appear to be a non-physicist in a board filled to the brim with physicists.

[Patrick Degan]

The real secret of TOS is that it was, first and foremost, a drama/action series. It was cast in SF, but in the 60s, when TV was required to be about something to hold a mass audience, it had to show people actually doing things to solve problems —and often with the clock running against them.

Two Franchise offerings which aired today provide the starkest underline of the contrast between real Trek and the product of the Paramount Saussage Factory. On SciFi, today's Star Trek episode was "Wink Of An Eye". Now, leaving aside how totally goofy the science of the story was, what we have at its core is Kirk Has To Solve A Problem. In this case, his ship has been invaded by aliens determined to take control of it and his crew. They've jacked in a cryofreeze unit to the life support systems and it's only a matter of an hour or less before they deep-freeze the crew. The Scalosians accelerate Kirk to get him out of the way and also so that their queen, Deela, can mate with him to produce a child —since their own males are sterile and mating outside their species is now their only hope of staving off extinction. Indeed, the Scalosians are themselves acting out of desperation; doing anything they can in order to survive. This does not make them evil, but it does make them a danger to the Enterprise crew. Kirk cleverly records a message outlining the Scalosian plot for Spock to find, counting on his ability to figure out what's going on, and how to get to Kirk's accelerated level to defeat the aliens. As the clock runs down, and the Scalosians are about to turn on their megafridge, Spock takes the risk of drinking the Scalosian water (after having sifted the evidence and put two and two together) while Kirk steals Deela's weapon and heads to life support. Finding Spock, they storm the room together, stun Rael, and destroy the cryofreezer.

On TNN tonight, the TNG episode up for viewing was "The Loss". In this one, Deanna Troi loses her powers and spends the whole damn hour whining about it. Oh, there's also the B plot about the Enteprise being caught in the wake of two-dimensional microlemmings all diving in towards a cosmic string on instinct. While Troi bitches about being disabled until everybody's ears start bleeding from it, the crew have several hours before they wind up as two-dimensional as the microlemmings (though they're close to that state as it is). Picard tries using photorp explosions to dislodge the ship, but this fails, after which they have another of their interminable board meetings. In the end, the ship escapes when they figure out a technobabble solution, then commence to play with their shiny toys on the bridge. We spend two minutes watching Data watch the expensive console that goes PING while Worf cranks up the volume on the deflector-cum-HIFI dish, presumably beaming to the aliens a full recording of Picard's speeches and/or Data's poetry —which finally relaxes their grip and the ship flies off. Oh, and Deanna gets her powers back so she's perky little Miss Sunshine again. The end.

The sad thing is that so many TNG and later Voyager episodes more or less follow this exact same pattern, almost down to the second. They may as well have been writing about a hundred copies of the same script, just substituting names and technobabble as needed. And they're not about anything other than touchy-feely psychobabble or stretching a ten minute plot into a 45 minute episode by filling time. The Boobyprise episode "Minefield" is a perfect example of that, since if the crew does anything intelligently, the episode is actually quite short.

It's taken garbage like this to actually foster an appreciation for TOS' worst episodes —which, no matter how goofy they might seem, at least have something solid at the core of them. Even if its just one single idea. And that's why even crap like "Spock's Brain", "Wink Of An Eye" or "The Mark Of Gideon" (a.k.a. Planet Of The Catholics) is more watchable than four whole seasons of Voyager or any of Boobyprise, or teeth-drillingly awful TNG runarounds like "The Loss".

[Master of Ossus]

The secret to TOS and TNG was the characters. Spock was a terrific character. Kirk and Bones were both excellent characters. Data and Worf and Geordi and Picard were all interesting characters. In DS9, they had some interesting characters. The Doctor got better, later on. Dax's potential was never fully realized (come on, she lived DOZENS of lives, why do we only hear vague references to Kurzon [sp] every fifth episode? Why doesn't that affect her more?), but Odo was a very good character and O'Brien was likeable enough. The weak link was the Captain, who was exceptionally weak. By the time we get to VOY, we find NO characters, whatsoever. The Doctor is basically a clone of Spock, Data, and Odo, taking ALL of their uninteresting characteristics and artificially limiting him in most respects. Janeway was exceptionally weak. Torres, though Klingon, was REALLY a stupid character, and Chakotay's stereotypical and mildly degrading status as a Native American infuriated many viewers. Tom Paris was totally stereotypical, and Seven had no personality (though she had a body).

And NOW look what we've got in ENT! Can anyone even name a personality trait of Captain Archer? What about Hoshi? T'Pol? They have NO personalities. Literally. We're two seasons in, and we know almost NOTHING about the characters. The show is just another sorry excuse to play around in the ST universe while making loads of money. It has no purpose! The writers have completely lost sight of what made the original ST shows so wonderful. That is why they fail.

[neoolong]

Actually a personality trait of Archer is that he is a sociopath and is able to rationalize genocide.

Though there is at least one good character. The character with the most personality on that whole show is Porthos. Phlox is also fairly decent, considering he is one of the only actual actors on that show.

After TOS and TNG and part of DS9, ST sucked because of B&B's Voyager and Enterpise. ST has lost its way and is now aimed at the lowest common denominator. That means T&A from T'Pol and effects over character and story.

What else do you expect from B&B? Good crap?

[Patrick Degan]

The character with the most personality on that whole show is Porthos.

Well, the dog (or spy from Sirius) is the most intelligent life form on the whole damn ship. Notice how it spends most episodes asleep?

That in itself is a bad sign if one of Boobyprise's main characters is that bored with the show.

[LordShaithis]

Enterprise has its moments. I liked the bit where they were answering questions from schoolchildren to send back to Earth, and one kid wanted to know how they go to the bathroom.

[Patrick Degan]

Enterprise has its moments. I liked the bit where they were answering questions from schoolchildren to send back to Earth, and one kid wanted to know how they go to the bathroom.

A "moment" which has about all the entertainment value of watching paint dry.

[Mr Bean]

Hmm gives me an idea

[Guest]

where are the bogs on the Enterprise? Have u ever heard Picard say "Take over the Bridge Number One. I need a Read and Write". Has 24th centurey medecind removed then need for the toilet? do they have transport buffers implanted in their stomaches to evacuate waste.

[Dark Primus]

The only character i did like in Voyager was the holographic doctor, i liked him. The others were just bug farts.

[Slartibartfast]

Actually a personality trait of Archer is that he is a sociopath and is able to rationalize genocide.

Well, the aliens he killed probably were bitter atheists, so it was the Christian thing to do. [/quote]

[Alyeska]

I count myself lucky. I grew up on and started with TOS. Then I started watching TNG and loved it. I saw like 6 episodes of DS9 from the first 2 seasons, so I missed what many say was very bad. I really started watching DS9 from the 3rd season and was watching almost every episode by the 4th season all the way to the 7th. Those were the good DS9 seasons, sure there were some dozies, but come on they had a war and they did a relatively good job with it.

As for Voyager, I can count on 2 hands the number of episodes I saw from all 7 seasons. And Enterprise? Haven't seen a single episode yet.

Then of course we got the Trek movies, which hold some of the best Trek material (2, 4, 6, , but they also have some bad examples (5, 7)

[Darth Wong]

What Star Trek needs is change. Different writers, different producers, different style, different paradigm.

It's been running on autopilot for so long that the pilots are asleep in the cockpit and nobody's noticed that the goddamned thing is just about to run out of gas.

For example, why not show problems in the Federation military itself, or its government? There are a zillion shows which are not sci-fi and somehow find a way to generate plots without aliens, never mind "alien of the week". B5 had an entire sub-plot involving President Clark. Or how about a Vulcan named Ralph, just for fun? It would suggest some kind of cultural intermingling, and I would just like to see a Vulcan named Ralph.

[Guest]

What Star Trek needs is change. Different writers, different producers, different style, different paradigm.

It's been running on autopilot for so long that the pilots are asleep in the cockpit and nobody's noticed that the goddamned thing is just about to run out of gas.

For example, why not show problems in the Federation military itself, or its government? There are a zillion shows which are not sci-fi and somehow find a way to generate plots without aliens, never mind "alien of the week". B5 had an entire sub-plot involving President Clark. Or how about a Vulcan named Ralph, just for fun? It would suggest some kind of cultural intermingling, and I would just like to see a Vulcan named Ralph.

I agree that Star Trek needs to make some corrections, quickly. The only thing that keeps me watching Enterprise is the hope that they do the coming conflict with the Romulans well. If they fail at that, I will have lost hope in the future of the Star Trek shows and movies. I'm including Nemesis in this as well. Nemesis had better be good. If B&B screw up the Romulans I'll be really upset because I view them as the last best alien race in Trek.

[CorSec]

I'm including Nemesis in this as well. Nemesis had better be good. If B&B screw up the Romulans I'll be really upset because I view them as the last best alien race in Trek.

If that leaked script for Nemesis is correct, they alreay have screwed up the Romulans. I'm not an expert at how BnB have messed up the other races, I'm guessing they saved the worst for last, so to speak. Heck, the conflict within the story doesn't even need Romulans, they just used them to hype the movie.

[Ender]

Hmm gives me an idea

That is never a good thing. It's akin to hearing a nuclear reactor operator say "Oops"

[CorSec]

That is never a good thing. It's akin to hearing a nuclear reactor operator say "Oops"

I'd rather hear "Oops" than "Oh shit" or "ohgodohgodohgodohgodohgod." But, really, it's a sliding scale.

[oberon]

What Star Trek needs is change. Different writers, different producers, different style, different paradigm.

It's been running on autopilot for so long that the pilots are asleep in the cockpit and nobody's noticed that the goddamned thing is just about to run out of gas.

For example, why not show problems in the Federation military itself, or its government? There are a zillion shows which are not sci-fi and somehow find a way to generate plots without aliens, never mind "alien of the week". B5 had an entire sub-plot involving President Clark. Or how about a Vulcan named Ralph, just for fun? It would suggest some kind of cultural intermingling, and I would just like to see a Vulcan named Ralph.

Yup. and if they would only have realistic characters! I think the worst thing that can happen to a show--the suspension of suspension of disbelief--happens when the plot exists only because of a stupid, unrealistic, not-human decision, which then may or may not be compounded by more of the same. What's more frustrating when watching a show than thinking "God! Why didn't they do 'x?' Those idiots! Why don't they just do 'y?'" I can't think of anything more maddening, except maybe someone in the room saying "It's only a show" Well, if it's only a show, then it shouldn't be very hard to make it good, with characters who do everything right and still have problems, or have simple miscommunications or mistakes that make for a good drama without being obviously "TV-Land Stupid".

The simple, mundane everyday life on a modern warship has more interest than the wildest new ST episode. The people are real, they do real things, there's some unpredictability there, and the whole thing has to stay together. I mean, shit. Look, Fort Lewis has had Green Berets who turned out to be organized neo-Nazis. They may have trained this sniper guy. There was a serial killer on the Nimitz. Some rangers went apeshit gung-ho and went on a raid in Somalia without as much planning as even having a roadmap and they got slaughtered. The Enterprise has THOUSANDS of crewmembers, AND it's coed, and they don't even show anything realistic. How many guys do you think would act so robotic when drinking in 10-Fwd with a female shipmate? What about the nice shy guy who gets drowned out by some search-and-destroy shipsec guy out to get laid? Why is everyone so jaded and fearless? Lack of fear often equates to a lack of brains. Real courage is facing your fear in order to get something done. But, as it's been pointed out, the scariest thing we see on Drek is Troi losing her power. As if that ability would have the least bit of meaning to a real captain in an exploration/combat sitch.

I would like to see, just once, a guy on the Ent running up a REAL LADDER on his way to a drill and drop his Walkman down a deck and yell "Fuck!" and keep going to his station, and not need psychotherapy afterward.

I'd like to see people who care about each other, who like and dislike and love and hate each other. I'd like to see people who had some cognition, who showed some fear and awe and adventurous spirit in the face of the wild black yonder. That way, you actually care about them as you watch. But you know.

[Perinquus]

What Star Trek needs is change. Different writers, different producers, different style, different paradigm.

It's been running on autopilot for so long that the pilots are asleep in the cockpit and nobody's noticed that the goddamned thing is just about to run out of gas.

For example, why not show problems in the Federation military itself, or its government? There are a zillion shows which are not sci-fi and somehow find a way to generate plots without aliens, never mind "alien of the week". B5 had an entire sub-plot involving President Clark. Or how about a Vulcan named Ralph, just for fun? It would suggest some kind of cultural intermingling, and I would just like to see a Vulcan named Ralph.

Well, you have to be careful how far you go in that direction. Remeber "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century"? There was a show which had some potential (an Erin Grey ), but out of both seasons, I think there were maybe two or three episodes which, with only minor rewrites, could not have been made into TV action shows set right in 20th century earth. There was very little actual sci fi, just the trappings - all suitably dumbed down for the strictly juvenile audience TV executives seem to think are the only ones interested in science fiction.

"Battlestar Galactica", which had real potential to be a great show (and lots of extremely good actors as guest stars) was bent over and reamed out by the suits. It too ended up with little real sci fi. Instead of what we could have had, we got "Shane in Space", and "The Towering Inferno in Space", and "The Guns of Navarone in Space", etc. etc.

One of the real strengths of sci fi is doing stories you can't do in other genres.

BUT!

Having said that, I do agree that there is room for shows that focus on other things than strictly sci fi plots. As long as the producers find the right balance they could do both.

I've said before that a really great ST series could have been made about the Romulan War Kirk and crew mentioned in TOS ep. "Balance of Terror". In such a show there would be plenty of sci fi, plenty of action, and plenty of opportunities to show conflicts and drama within the nascent Federation's military effort (imagine the Vulcan's and humans butting heads over the best way to achieve victory, much as the British and Americans often quarreled about strategic objectives during WWII).

Of course with Berman and Braga systematically crapping all over ST and it's continuity, we'll never see such a show.