Here's a thought...

Darth Balls · Post by **Darth Balls** » 2002-11-01 02:47pm

Seems people always want to compare the Borg to the Empire, but seeing as the Borg didnt come along untill The Next Generation why not pit them against somebody who didnt come along untill the New Jedi Order?
The Borg Vs The Yuuzhan Vong

I think that would be hilarious to see the Borg get tore up so badly by the Vong.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-11-01 02:51pm

Personally, I loathe the Vong and the NJO series. It fucks with continuity, tech, and the Force.

On the other hand, seeing the Borg shit themselves over organic fighters capable of .9 Cee strafing runs would be amusing.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-11-01 03:00pm

The only reason the Vong would win this one is because the Borg are even more stupid than they are, although the TNG borg werent that bad it wasnt until Voyager got a shot at them that they lost their ability to think at a level above that of a four year old.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-11-01 03:46pm

TheDarkling wrote:The only reason the Vong would win this one is because the Borg are even more stupid than they are, although the TNG borg werent that bad it wasnt until Voyager got a shot at them that they lost their ability to think at a level above that of a four year old.

I'd say the Vong's vastly superior firepower, acceleration, FTL, and shielding abilities would be what clinch this, Darkling.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-01 04:48pm

TheDarkling wrote:The only reason the Vong would win this one is because the Borg are even more stupid than they are, although the TNG borg werent that bad it wasnt until Voyager got a shot at them that they lost their ability to think at a level above that of a four year old.

There's that, and there's the weapon power difference, and the strength and reflexes and discipline and numbers of the YV.

Cpt. Marko Ramius · Post by **Cpt. Marko Ramius** » 2002-11-01 05:22pm

I think I might have read a book in the NJO series... if I remember right, I didn't understand a hell of a lot about it. But since I have no love for the Borg either (with the exception of Seven... typical dork alert), I'd have to say I hope they blow each other all to hell.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-11-01 07:13pm

What is the scenario though? A wormhole to the two galaxies?

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2002-11-01 07:16pm

SirNitram wrote:Personally, I loathe the Vong and the NJO series. It fucks with continuity, tech, and the Force.

On the other hand, seeing the Borg shit themselves over organic fighters capable of .9 Cee strafing runs would be amusing.

Too true. WHY DID CHEWIE HAVE TO DIE?!?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-11-01 07:31pm

SirNitram:In Vong Vs F/K/R I would back the ST side simply because, hell we have had this discussion before but the short of it is that the Feds could out technobabble the Vongs biotechnobabble, the Vong dont have alot of people to spare and the F/K/R would actually engage the Vong in battle before they arrived in Earth orbit.

The Vongs main advantage is FTL but without being able to get spies into the F/R (maybe the Klingons im not sure) with ease, lack of maps will hurt their early invasion, holding anything will be a problem - so it becomes the Vong running round taking over planets while the Feds retake planets eventually the Vong run out of people.

That isnt really the topic though which is Borg Vs Vong and the Borg fail because they cant out technobabble the Vong (like the NR), they have the tactical apptitude of a log (like the NR politicians) and would simply sit around and not use their forces in bulk to take the fight to the enemy (like the NR).

The Borg probably have a much better chance of actually engaging the Vong in battle (since Borg transwarp conduit is at least equal if not orders of magnitude higher than Vong hyperdrive), they could easily outstrip the Vong in numbers (Borg ships range from 100,000 to millions dependant upon your guess).

The problem is unless the Borg have faced some sort of gravity shields before they havent got the brains to nullify it (unless the Queen steps in), if the Borg overcome the Vongs shields they have a fighting chance but complete lack of tactics will probably reduce the entire affair to a Borg junk yard.

I wouldnt however say the Vong have a massive advantage in shields since their shields are even more useless than Fed shields just it takes someone with actual intelligence to take advantage of the weakness.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-01 07:49pm

The Vong can hold there own of the technology of Star Wars, which we already know is orders of magnitude better then what Trek fields. There shielding system renders there ships venerable to fighter attacks as direct hits on the hulls are possible without first pounding down shielding as is the case with Imperial or NR ships, but the Borg wont be able to exploit this. The Borg seem to reley on a few very powerful weapons systems, and this plays right into the Vong strength.

The Vong are going to Steamroller the Borg.

Now without full shielding the Borg might be able to beam aboard Vong ships, if they can get close enough to try. But boarding actions would be slaughter, the Vong are already very well versed in close quarters combat with edged weapons and their thud and razor bugs should prove highly effective against drones. It also seems their entire ship crews are so armed.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-11-01 08:39pm

Darkling, you astound me. Allow me to deconstruct your points.

1) There is no reason to assume they cannot infiltrate before the invasion. They evaded Republic Bioscanners(Capable of picking up shapeshifters, which is more than Earth could do against the Founders), and got intel.

2) Agreed. Borg are chewed up, shitted out.

3) Excuse me? Vong Hyperdrive is equal to/nearly equal to NR Hyperdrive, with the added bonus of being able to engage opponents while FTL. Only existing conduits and hubs will be able to match them.

3b) I'd love to see this 100,000 - millions of Cubes evidence.

4) Borg adaptation techniques are stated to be entirely frequency dependent. Gravity has no resonant frequency.

5) Vong shields soak up more damage than Fed shields, though yes, they are at a disadvantage in specific cases.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-11-01 08:54pm

SirNitram:

Yes some people do have very narrow fields of vision

.

1)Transporters...(I doubt many Klingons or Romulans are allowed the luxury of not using one) and can SW shapeshifters turn into fire? no I thought not (at least I dont think so) so we are talking about differing levels of shape shifters.
I would also think that the Feds/Roms keep a tighter reign on peoples coming and goings more than the massive (and woefully ineffective) NR.

3)

I said

(since Borg transwarp conduit is at least equal if not orders of magnitude higher than Vong hyperdrive)

You said

Only existing conduits and hubs will be able to match them.

Hmm you did read where I said transwarp CONDUITS right?

3b) Chaoktay says the Borg have millions of vessels and since he was once hooked up to a hive he should know, even if you say he is exagerating I doubt he would go from sub 100,000 to millions.
Remember the Borg have holdings in other dimensions as well as the DQ.

4)Borg adaptation isnt stated to be freq only I seem to remember them adapting to some weird weapon by chaging the cnfig of their shields in a non freq way.

However I wasnt aware the Vong used gravity weapons (apart from the shield strippers) I was talking about the Borg taking out the Vongs shields (if they need to) so I think you missed the point here.

5)Vong "shields" do soak up alot of damage however they would also fall before trek tech (even SW technobabbled Dovin basals out of shield stripping by using their IDF system).

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2002-11-01 09:22pm

The Borg would be annihilated, IMHO, for the following reasons:

1) The Vong would most likely see the Borg's combination of organic and cybernetic the highest blasphemy possible, spurring them on to slaughter all Borg they encounter, no mercy, no quarter.

2) The Borg would be unable to assimilate a Vong, as the Vong would commit suicide before the hive mind took full control.

3) Borg are slow and uncoordinated in melee, whereas Vong are the opposite. Razors, saws, and whatever other cybernetic contraptions they may have would be easily parried or blocked by amphistaves and vonduun crab armor.

4) Borg ship-to-ship weapons would be useless against Vong dovin basals.

5) Vong never retreat, never surrender, and fight to the death.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-11-01 09:28pm

1.Agreed

2.The Borg can resurrect people after they have been dead for hours and I dont think the Vong would always have enough time to kill themselves either (what about the Borg assimilating ships or Worldships)

3.The Borg would get hammered in melee but in truth they would get hammered by a guy with a medium sized stick.

4.Proof of this please?

5.That rubbish they have retreated before and even if this were true it would constitute a weakness not a strength.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2002-11-01 09:34pm

2) Ok, didn't know that. As for ships, no, it would be scuttled if in danger of being captured.

3) They wouldn't get hammered, they'd be ripped to pieces, especially since they can't adapt to the Vong's melee weapons

4) Well, seeing as how a dovin basal can absorb constant pummeling from a turbolaser, I think a ton of them could handle the Borg's few green-beam-thingies on a cube.

5) Tactically retreated in a few rare cases, and speak for yourself

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-11-01 10:08pm

If they could take half the galaxy from the New Republic while the government was fucked, full of racists, full of criminals, and full of treasonous assholes, they still out do anything in Star Trek by many orders of magnitude, including the Borg.

Keep in mind the Vong can take on the New Republic fleets which are stocked with many ships that well out-perform the ISD.