ST vs. SW and Godzilla

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Styphon
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Post by Styphon »

Praxis wrote:
Styphon wrote:
Praxis wrote: Not a DBZ fan! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!
Okay, then he's dead. See what I made bold.

An orbital turbolaser strike, maybe a BDZ, will easily heat him WAY over 1200 degrees. He'll be molten plasma, and not one cell will survive.
problem: for some reason, he only melts down if he's heated up this much from INSIDE...

does it make sense? no...
does it bug the fans? yes...
but is it established fact, based on his magma dip in Godzilla vs. Mothra causing him NO HARM? yes
What if you tickled him to get him to open his mouth, and THEN fire turbolaser shots down his throat? ;)
curses, foiled again! :P

on another note: all the orbital bombardments with torpedoes, turbolasers, whatever: I'll throw you a bone and say it's theoretically possible to destroy him through such means... better hope it's possible to get him with the first shot though... otherwise he'll pull the little move he pulled at the end of Godzilla X Megaguiras and blast the bright shiny thing coming down out of the sky out of existence with his breath weapon! 8)
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Post by Praxis »

Styphon wrote:
Praxis wrote:
Styphon wrote: problem: for some reason, he only melts down if he's heated up this much from INSIDE...

does it make sense? no...
does it bug the fans? yes...
but is it established fact, based on his magma dip in Godzilla vs. Mothra causing him NO HARM? yes
What if you tickled him to get him to open his mouth, and THEN fire turbolaser shots down his throat? ;)
curses, foiled again! :P

on another note: all the orbital bombardments with torpedoes, turbolasers, whatever: I'll throw you a bone and say it's theoretically possible to destroy him through such means... better hope it's possible to get him with the first shot though... otherwise he'll pull the little move he pulled at the end of Godzilla X Megaguiras and blast the bright shiny thing coming down out of the sky out of existence with his breath weapon! 8)
And what is that? I mean, how can a nuclear grade breath blow up a Star Destroyer that can take teratons of damage? I can see it taking out a small Trek ship, but not Wars. Unless you're talking about something that reflects the opponents attacks? Dunno. Never watched the Godzilla movies other than that recent one.

Still, Wars ships can survive repeated hits from their own weapons, so...

I'd say Proton Torpedoes have the best chance, being high megaton, shaped, armor peircing weapons. Otherwise, enough turbolasers will do it (gigatons :) ).
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Styphon
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Post by Styphon »

Praxis wrote:
Styphon wrote:
Praxis wrote: What if you tickled him to get him to open his mouth, and THEN fire turbolaser shots down his throat? ;)
curses, foiled again! :P

on another note: all the orbital bombardments with torpedoes, turbolasers, whatever: I'll throw you a bone and say it's theoretically possible to destroy him through such means... better hope it's possible to get him with the first shot though... otherwise he'll pull the little move he pulled at the end of Godzilla X Megaguiras and blast the bright shiny thing coming down out of the sky out of existence with his breath weapon! 8)
And what is that? I mean, how can a nuclear grade breath blow up a Star Destroyer that can take teratons of damage? I can see it taking out a small Trek ship, but not Wars. Unless you're talking about something that reflects the opponents attacks? Dunno. Never watched the Godzilla movies other than that recent one.

Still, Wars ships can survive repeated hits from their own weapons, so...

I'd say Proton Torpedoes have the best chance, being high megaton, shaped, armor peircing weapons. Otherwise, enough turbolasers will do it (gigatons :) ).
yeah... I uh... phrased that poorly...
I meant he'd be destroying whatever you're shooting at him with his breath...
although, again, things Godzilla has destroyed in various incarnations using his breath: an ultra high density planet (at least, I assume it's ultra high density, cause back in the original Gorath movie, it had WAAAAAY more gravity than it was supposed to), a mini-singularity, diamond coated things built specifically to withstand his breath (and reflect it back at him even stronger than it already is, somehow...), Space Godzilla (who's supposed to be stronger than Godzilla himself), Orga (a monster that basically stole his regenerating abilities and took them EVEN FARTHER! although that was firing from the inside... :? ), himself (in GMK, when his breath misfires)... the list goes on...
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Post by Ghost Rider »

Less excessive quoting.

Just simply quote the last thing, not the entire box...thank you :D .
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Post by Styphon »

Ghost Rider wrote:Less excessive quoting.

Just simply quote the last thing, not the entire box...thank you :D .
sorry... :oops:

force of habit from hanging out at some EXTREMELY fast moving boards with multiple, completely unrelated, conversations simultaneously taking place in the same thread ALL THE TIME!

won't happen again...
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Post by Majin Gojira »

brianeyci wrote:Someone who has watched a lot of Godzilla movies,

How fast can Godzilla regenerate
Depends on the Godzilla.

Showa Series example: Mechagodzilla opens up a veinin Godzilla's neck that squirts blood everywhere, it seals up in a few seconds.

Heisie series example: Punctured repeatedly by biollante, but wounds seal up almost immediately after thorns are removed.

Heisie 2 Example: Mechagodzilla II punctures Godzilla's side with bladed cables, after they are removed from his side, no wounds seem present.

G2k Example: This is utter Wolverine level regeneration, based on what Orga stole and what it took to kill him (pulverized from the inside out).

X Series 1: I can't think of any examples, but officially, all Godzilla encarnations can regenerate

GMK: Unknown, but much slower than other godzilla. He relied more on his thick hide to do it.

G X MG/G X M X MG: Again, slower than normal. But then again, this one survived being hit by the "Absolute Zero Canon" with only a large chest wound--in several years the wound did not fully heal (big scar).
What is the highest yield of weapon that Godzilla has been hit by

In the Marc Cerasini Novels, he can be injured by Battelship canons, but the wounds heal over just as the smoke clears.
How often does Godzilla need to eat
the only Godzilla shown to eat is the Heisie Godzilla and he absorbs Radiation every few years or so by attacking a nuclear power plant.
Can Godzilla reproduce
Showa, Heisie and one the Millenial series have Godzilla Offspring, but all are adoptive.
Can Godzilla go subterranean
Showa Godzilla burrowed to the scene in "Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla". Other Godzilla's do not. burrow AFAIK.
What is the range of his fire breath
Showa Godzilla's breath weapon is rather short range. In Gvs.Hedorah, we see the beam cap out, but have no references as to how far the distance is.

Heisie Godzilla's breath weapon has not shown a cap, but as all godzilla's he operates out of line of site.

Millenial encarnations have rather long ranges, comparitably to what is shown. The longest distance is seen in the newest film, where he blasts at an asteroid heading to earth that has apparently entered the earth's atmosphere.
How powerful is his fire breath eg. how long does it take for him to set Tokyo on fire
The Showa breath weapon is generally the weakest, though it has, on occasion, been shown to turn some rocks into a liquid state (partially)

Heisie breath weapon was once calculated at several KT per second when Godzilla was using his read beam. Godzilla's blasts are generally about 3 seconds or so.

Millenial encarnations have breath weapons greater than the Red Beam of the heisie series, especially GMK. The Final Wars Godzilla is going to apparently destroy a extinction-level asteroid.
How long does it take his fire breath to set him on fire
His breath weapon generally blows things up, but it varies from blast to blast. Sometimes there is a delayed reaction, other times, there is a chain reaction that goes through the line of tanks before him.
How did they defeat Godzilla in Godzilla movies
1. Desintigrated by Oxygen Destroyer (Original)--it has been proposed that the weapon turned the water around him into Hydrogen Peroxide.
2. Burried in avelanche of Ice. (Godzilla's Counterattack/Godzilla Raids Again)
3. Poisoned and cocooned by Mothra (Godzilla vs. Mothra)
4. Frozen by weather control device capable of freezing Salt Water in the middle of the tropics (Son of Godzilla)
5. Kept in Pens by various repellent gasses (Destroy All Monsters)
6. Dropped in an active volcano (More of a "Damnit, I can't get out" situation) (Godzilla 1985)
7. Dropped into the mariana trench with big weight attatched (Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah)
8. Dropped back in trench by Mothra and Battra, then having a holy seal placed over him (Godzilla and Mothra: the Battle for Earth)
9. Meltdown after absorbing too much radiation (Godzilla vs. Destroyer)
10. It looked like the Black Hole weapon defeated him, but it only burried him for a few weeks.
11. After a long strugle with the gaurdian spirits of Japan (they entering his body), a wound is finally made in hsi shoulder, disrupting his atomic ray. He blows himself up with his own weapon...but his heart remains beating...
12. Hole drilled in stomach, wrapped up by Mothra larvae and carried by Kiryu to the mariana trench so both Godzilla's can 'rest in peace' (supposedly, the reason why Godzilla returned was because of the creation of Kiryu from the bones of the original Godzilla)
Can Godzilla swim
Generally, at about 40 knots
Can Godzilla fly or grow wings
He once propelled himself with his own breath weapon in "Godzilla vs. Hedorah". It was a very silly scene.
How fast does Godzilla walk
He generally cruises around, but can be surprisngly fast. Heisie 1 is officially stated to move about 30KPH IIRC.
Does Godzilla linger around eg. like destroying shit for the fun of it
When destroying things, he gnerally keeps moving, not lingering. Always going forward.
How effective are conventional weapons against Godzilla
Conventional weapons generally have no effect.
Has anyone tried using a biological weapon on Godzilla
Once. They use Anti Nuclear Energy Bacteria (made from his own cells) to detroy him. At first it didn't work because of Godzilla's low Body Temp. They then heated him up with what ammounted to a giant microwave oven. He survived for 3 years with the infection after that, by remaining underwater.

[qutoe]Has anyone tried using special armor piercing weapons on Godzilla[/quote]

Normal AP tech is generally useless, giant drills have been used agains 3 encarnations, and have been effective in each case (sorta).
1. in G vs. Biollante, drilling rockets (from Anti-tank rocket launchers) drilled into him enough to deliver the bacteria (one was shot in the mouth as well).
2. GMK, drill weapons could tear at the skin--but didn't go deep enough before exploding.
3. Kiryu's new drill arm drilled deep into Godzilla, injuring him but not drawing blood (!?)
Does Godzilla have any brains at all, or could he be led into a trap
Showa series at first he could be lead into traps, but they were generally elaborate and non-repeating. Also, they rarely worked so he didn't bother avoiding repeat traps (Gvs. Mothra). Later on, though, he got much smarter (Destroying the trap once it was deativated in Gvs. Gigan). Generally.

In other series, traps aren't used more than once. He seems to know how much of a brick he is and acts with an air of confidence in some instances.
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Post by Majin Gojira »

I just remebered something: Heisie 1's beam eventually melted a sheild made of Synthetic daimond. It took several hits to do it, but he eventually melted it beyond repair.
ISARMA: Daikaiju Coordinator: Just Add Radiation
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."

Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.

"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran
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Post by Styphon »

I'd like to say that everything Majin Gojira says is correct and you should probably listen to him more than me since he's made some effort to seperate the abilities of the different incarnations of Godzilla, with one caveat...
to my knowledge, it's not an extinction level asteroid that Godzilla blows up in Final Wars, but a ROGUE PLANET...
then again, I could be wrong, who knows what monkeying around they've done to Gorath since the 60s movie of the same name...
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Post by Bellator »

All this makes it seem that neither ST nor SW can destroy Godzilla, without blowing half the planet up.
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Post by Praxis »

Bellator wrote:All this makes it seem that neither ST nor SW can destroy Godzilla, without blowing half the planet up.
I think from the discussion that SW can destroy Godzilla (nuclear yield blasts like his breath are peanuts to them, after all), though they will probably concentrate a volley of turbolaser blasts which should essentially kill everything within a 20 kilometers or so.

But most of the planet will survive.

ST on the other hand, has had ships damaged by high nuclear yield weapons, so Godzilla might actually be able to destroy their ships (that would be amusing to watch). Phasers may be effective (NDF?), possibly, but most likely not. Photon torpedoes may do more damage (maybe twice as powerful as the biggest nukes today), but likely not kill him very fast, and not complete enough to prevent him from regenerating.
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Post by Majin Gojira »

Thought: How long would it take the non-militarized Federation to realize Godzilla is a potential problem that they will have to actually...you know...FIGHT?
ISARMA: Daikaiju Coordinator: Just Add Radiation
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Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."

Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.

"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran
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Post by Praxis »

Majin Gojira wrote:Thought: How long would it take the non-militarized Federation to realize Godzilla is a potential problem that they will have to actually...you know...FIGHT?
A while.

At first they may take the Picard/CE route and insist that it's just a new life form killing people and not realizing what its doing, so they should let it alone...

Unlike the crystalline entity, it can't be destroyed by a lone rogue, so it'll have to destroy a ship or two and a few cities to top it off before they decide to kill him ;)
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Post by Styphon »

some thoughts: In Godzilla X Megaguiras, Godzilla attacks some cities to get at their PLASMA generators.... now, based on every single other time he's attacked a power plant of any kind, this is presumably so he can feed... and some people say that turbolasers and the like are plasma weapons...

somewhat wanky conclusion: Godzilla might just be able to feed on the turbolaser volleys... :twisted:

as to the Federation... well, yeah, they'd kill him (well... they'd try...) back in TOS... TNG, they'd probably just evacuate the planet and leave him be, assuming they couldn't transport (not use the transporter, just transport) him to another planet without intelligent life somehow.
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Post by SylasGaunt »

brianeyci wrote:Someone who has watched a lot of Godzilla movies,
You rang? Anyway, depending on the version..
How fast can Godzilla regenerate
Well lets see.. in Godzilla vs. Destroyah Godzilla is cut in two by Destroyah's laser horn.. the energy blade passes all the way through him in a shower of assorted nastiness and spurting.. Godzilla continues to fight. That would seem to indicate to me he regenerated fast enough not to slurp apart.
What is the highest yield of weapon that Godzilla has been hit by
Hmm.. in Godzilla Tokyo SOS he ends up in the middle of an FAE attack by Mothra that reduces the surrounding area to scorched ruins.. and doesn't even singe him. In Godzilla vs. Megaguiras they whack him one with a micro-singularity, in Godzilla against Mechagodzilla he survives a near hit with Kiryu's Absolute Zero Cannon (try and guess what that does).

In the later heisei series we see his beam at times creating fireballs easily as tall as he is (100 meters).
How often does Godzilla need to eat
Unknown though he takes a 5 year snooze in a volcano between Godzilla 1984 and Godzilla vs. Biollante.
Can Godzilla reproduce
Depends on the version.

Eggs containing other Godzillas are present in both the Showa and Heisei version though their source is unknown.
Can Godzilla go subterranean
In Godzilla vs. Mothra: The Battle For Earth he and Battra have it out on the ocean floor. The ground ends up cracking during the fight and Godzilla goes under and travels underground before surfacing at a volcano.
What is the range of his fire breath
Unknown as we've never seen it fired at a range where it dissipates.
How powerful is his fire breath eg. how long does it take for him to set Tokyo on fire
Tokyo is typically smashed up the more conventional way. Though there have been a number of instances of extremely large fireballs resulting.
How long does it take his fire breath to set him on fire
Only been hit with it once due to the Super X-2's fire mirror. It failed to set him ablaze and indeed the artificial diamond mirror melted none too long into the engagement.

The next closest thing would be Super Mechagodzilla's plasma grenade which is charged using the energy absorbed from Goji's breath by its N-2 armor. This beam strikes with sufficient kinetic force to throw Goji off his feet yet does not cause any visible wounds. Whether this is due to durability, ultra-quick regeneration, or both is unknown.
How did they defeat Godzilla in Godzilla movies
He tended to superhero it in the showa era so I'll skip it..

Godzilla: King of the Monsters- Reduced to a bleached skeleton by the Oxygen Destroyer (the secrets of which were lost with the death of its inventor)

Godzilla 1984- They trick him into falling into an active volcano (this does not however kill him as he emerges 5 years later)

Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah- Via use of time travel they erase him from the present.. the only problem is he actually ends up coming back even stronger than before before finally being dropped into the sea by Mecha King-Ghidorah (which is destroyed in the process)

Godzilla vs. Mothra: The Battle for Earth: Battra and Mothra drop godzilla into the ocean and Mothra drops a mystical seal on him. Battra is killed in the process.

Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla: They paralyze him by destroying one of his brains then blasting the ever loving crap out of him.. problem being he regenerates and blows the hell out of Mechagozilla due to a sudden radiation infusion.

Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla: The humans don't defeat him, Godzilla leaves on his own after defeating Space Godzilla

Godzilla vs. Destroyah: After being at ground zero of a nuclear detonation that destroys his island home (IIRC it wasn't a human attempt either but a freak natural occurance), godzilla's internal nuclear reactor runs out of control causing him to meltdown and die (on a side note in this same film they initially fear he'll explode.. and one character mentions it would be worse than 'all nuclear weapons' ).

Godzilla 2000: They don't.. in fact the last shot of the movie is Godzilla burning tokyo to the ground.

Godzilla vs. Megaguiras: They still don't despite taking not one, but two shots at him with a Black Hole gun known as the Dimension Tide.

Giant Monsters All Out Attack: Godzilla is wounded by King Ghidorah and soon after swallows a human submarine carrying a D-3 drill missile. The pilot fires the missile which exits through the wound and Godzilla is destroyed when his own breath weapon runs out of control and causes him to explode (however his heart is later seen on the ocean floor, still beating and intact).
Can Godzilla swim
Quite well.
Can Godzilla fly or grow wings
Godzilla flies in Godzilla vs. the Smog Monster using his breath weapon.
How fast does Godzilla walk
Unknown.
Does Godzilla linger around eg. like destroying shit for the fun of it
In general no. On occasion he will when he's pissed off but usually the destruction is caused by him not bothering going around the city between him and whatever it is that's caught his attention.
How effective are conventional weapons against Godzilla
Completely ineffective.
Has anyone tried using a biological weapon on Godzilla
In Godzilla vs. Biollante they dose him with an Anti-Nuclear Energy Bacteria that was IIRC engineered using unique aspects of his DNA. He recieved an extremely high dose and hte JSDF even used the thunderfield system to raise his body temperature to a mroe ideal one fo the Bacterial to grow in. He got woozy and weakened for a bit then he got over it.
Has anyone tried using special armor piercing weapons on Godzilla
Tank rounds don't qualify as armor piercing?

The Full Metal Missiles in Godzilla 2000 were a next-generation armor piercing missile. They blew chunks out of him but even repeated hammering couldn't put him down and he just ended up regenerating the damage.
Does Godzilla have any brains at all, or could he be led into a trap
He was decoyed into a live volcano in G84.. note this doesn't work a second time.

Space Godzilla baits Godzilla into fighting him inside his crystal fortress, giving him an immense advantage.. Godzilla ends up kicking his ass anyway with a little help from Humanities latest giant robot. (which he then proceeds to blow up).
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Post by SylasGaunt »

3. Kiryu's new drill arm drilled deep into Godzilla, injuring him but not drawing blood (!?)
Especially impressive considering all the goji chunks flying about in that scene :D
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