Captain_Cyran wrote:Going to have to give this to Vader, though BARELY and I do mean that. The only reason Vader edges out is because, as a kid I was scared of him, Khan, not so much. Khan gets serious points for being a bad ass to the very end. If not for Vader just plain being scarier Khan would have this in my book.
Really?
After TWOK, I slept with my hands over my ears for years! Those ear things probably caused me more nightmares than any other movie monster. I have to give the fear edge to Khan, too.
I'm fairly sure that I never once had a nightmare about Darth Vader. I may have dreamt of him and Charles bronson driving a dunebuggy around the grand canyon while firing shotguns ateach other, but that was far from a nightmare. It's actually one of my more enjoyable dreams...
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Captain_Cyran wrote:Going to have to give this to Vader, though BARELY and I do mean that. The only reason Vader edges out is because, as a kid I was scared of him, Khan, not so much. Khan gets serious points for being a bad ass to the very end. If not for Vader just plain being scarier Khan would have this in my book.
Really?
After TWOK, I slept with my hands over my ears for years! Those ear things probably caused me more nightmares than any other movie monster. I have to give the fear edge to Khan, too.
I'm fairly sure that I never once had a nightmare about Darth Vader. I may have dreamt of him and Charles bronson driving a dunebuggy around the grand canyon while firing shotguns ateach other, but that was far from a nightmare. It's actually one of my more enjoyable dreams...
Oh shit. You're right. My bad, I just remembered that I STILL can't watch that scene with the worms without squirming. Thank you for reminding me... ass.
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Now if a ripped shirt isn't cool, I'm not sure what is. And to the Eurpoean Fashion Model thing, grow a brain, did you see what the guys were wearing, next thing you'll say is anybody with a European accent and long hair resembles a European Fashion Model .
Brian
Wow, you address this at me, and yet not manage to refute anything I said, how suprising dumbass.
Η ζωή, η ζωή εδω τελειώνει!
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Kahn has the ups on vader on the coolness factor. He was always calm and composed (except when goaded by kirk), used people and threw them away like old shoes, put worms in people's minds to control them and stranded an entire crew of panzies on a deserted rock. I also give coolness to Kahn because he was able to plant someone close to kirk and nearly get him (there goes the federation panzy again.) But the coolest part was when Kahn was knocked down, he didn't surrender, he didn't give up, he gave a final "up yours!" by detnating the genesis project. Vader mumbled something about "you were right."
While Vader is cool, and I LOVE the Imperial March, I give Khan my vote. He's the only ST villain who was actually cool, and one of the few villians I've ever seen who wasn't super-powered (yes, I know he's genetically modified, but how useful is that on a starship?) and who used brains instead of brawn. I'm not against superpowers by any means, but it's cool to see a regular guy-type villain who kicks ass.
As to the point about Vader's end being sucky, Vader had already won his battle. His real end was when he threw Palpy, radiating force lightning in all his badassness, down the reactor. The scene with Luke was the epilogue.
MFS Angry Wookiee - PRFYNAFBTFC
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." -Richard Dawkins
I'd give the edge to Vader. The thing that makes Vader cool is that his is a story of fall and redemption. Unfortunately for him, it is not a full redemption, as Luke is the only one who mourned Vader's death.
The character of Vader is a lot deeper than many people are willing to grant. Everyone keep saying that Vader chokes at the slightest provocation, though one could make the argument that he only resorts to execution for repeated failures. I in no way excuse his choice of choking people, but with the exception of Needa (whose story isn't much explored), it seems the people he chokes have a history of trying his patience.
Like Ozzel. ("You have failed me for the last time, Admiral.")
Or the Commander in ANH who kept baiting Vader.
However, Vader shows relative leniency with Peers after he takes over afterwards. When Lando, Leia, Chewie, and most importantly Luke escape on the Falcon, under the assumption that Vader executes people for every failure, Peers should have gotten it. Peers would be an example of a competent Imperial officer since he a) got promoted from Captain to Admiral with Ozzel's dead, b) did not get executed for failing to capture Luke, and c) was still alive a couple years later in ROTJ. Vader shows no signs of sadism as long as the people working for him act professionally and competently. I would only be really concerned about Vader if I started making failure a habit.
Another example of the competent officer would be Jerjerrod. He was trusted with the construction of the Death Star. Vader left him in command even though a "choke on a whim" Vader should have killed him for being behind schedule, especially on such an important project.
As for the thing about torturing his own daughter, it's not like he knew who she was. If he had known Leia was his daughter, he likely would have tried to turn her like he did with Luke.
Finally, I challenge anyone to find a scene where a plastic mask shows more emotion than Vader's did as he was looking back and forth between the Emperor and Luke during the Force lightning scene.
Stravo wrote:SOme folks are talking about Kahn crippling the flagship. Let's remember that it this point the Enerprise is a training vessel. She's nowhere near what she was in TMP or TOS. The Reliant at least was an active duty vessel and probably more advanced than the Enterprise as I believe she is a later design.
As was stated, the reason it was crippled was because Kirk failed to raise shields, failing to follow a rather intelligent regulation Saavik was trying to quote to him (raising shields if appraoching a vessel with no communication). Enterprise didn't seem any weaker than Reliant because of its training status. If she had shields the only advantage Reliant would likely have would be speed and maneuverability.
The only thing that might have impeeded was conducting repairs on the vessel after the first battle due to lack of experienced personnel.
Had this been reality Kirk would have gotten his ass roasted in a board of inquiery for failing to follow regulations and getting his ship crippled and a bunch of cadets killed.
Tough call though. I like Vader a bit better personally.
-A.L.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence...Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." - Calvin Coolidge
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right okay. anyones remarks about vader not being "as evil" has got some priorities mixed unless certain things are in order (like actions as anakin dont count).
-Darth Vader helped hunt down and decimate the jedi, the guardians of all that is GOOD in the galaxy
-im not sure if this anakin or vader but didnt he mercilessly slaughter the jedi younglings?? thats pretty fuckin evil to kill relatively defenseless children
irishmick79 wrote:Gun Bunnies should, under no circumstances, be given access to the force.
The South may rise again, but the North will just kick their asses... again.
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