How one Star Trek ship could take down an ISD's Shields

[Ender]

The ISD's themselves suffered very little damage. The famous "destruction" sequence doesn't really kill the ISD (the tower is still there) and its shields were down so we know that the armor on those suckers can take quite a bit of a beating by themselves.

Actually, we don't know if its still there or not. Its IMPLIED that it was destroyed, but we don't see the final results. The only thing we know is when the rock hits, the camera switches to a conversation which shows the CO throwing up his arms to cover his face (reflex) and the transmission is severed. Thats enough to SUGGEST that the bridge took quite a beating even if it wasn't destroyed.

I've got a vid capture, courtesy of "CaptainSheridan" which shows precisely what I said. However, if there is other evidence to suggest the tower is still there, then I'll take that into consideration.

I would like to see this pic, it would be useful for debates

[Vertigo1]

You can still see the outline of the tower through the debris cloud moving against the background of the Executor.

Really? CS posted pics in the "Shield Domes" thread ages ago, but I couldn't see the outline myself. Still, I find it hard to believe that an asteroid can make that kind of explosion. Hell, how COULD it make an explosion on its own? There's no gas in any sizeable quantity to make that kind of an explosion, therefore something else must have caused it.

[Vympel]

The Captain's actions aren't reflexive. It's obviously from secondary explosions- he looks over to where there is obviously trouble- looks worried, and covers his face with his hands. Not indicative of the bridge being totally annihilated.

[Darth PhysBod]

You can still see the outline of the tower through the debris cloud moving against the background of the Executor.

Really? CS posted pics in the "Shield Domes" thread ages ago, but I couldn't see the outline myself. Still, I find it hard to believe that an asteroid can make that kind of explosion. Hell, how COULD it make an explosion on its own? There's no gas in any sizeable quantity to make that kind of an explosion, therefore something else must have caused it.

Its difficult to see in stills, however in playback you can see the 'spine' of the tower moving relative to the orange engine glow from the executor.

[Moonshadow]

You forget, Picard is a PC fucking idiot. He decloaked deliberately in front of the Klingons because he wanted to hoor the treaty and reveal the illegal cloak. The Romulans wouldn't have let him leave with it.

Klingons? WTF? you mean Romulans right?

[Vertigo1]

Its difficult to see in stills, however in playback you can see the 'spine' of the tower moving relative to the orange engine glow from the executor.

Hmm...I've re-watched the vid capture and I still can't see it. I paused it the exact frame before the holo-vidconference scene and I couldn't make out anything through the flames.

If freakin' Media Player would let me take screenshots, I'd show you what I mean. Damn thing plays it in an overlay (ie: hardware) so just hitting ALT and Printscreen won't work.

[Lord Poe]

You forget, Picard is a PC fucking idiot. He decloaked deliberately in front of the Klingons because he wanted to hoor the treaty and reveal the illegal cloak. The Romulans wouldn't have let him leave with it.

Klingons? WTF? you mean Romulans right?

Yup!

[Guest]

The Captain's actions aren't reflexive. It's obviously from secondary explosions- he looks over to where there is obviously trouble- looks worried, and covers his face with his hands. Not indicative of the bridge being totally annihilated.

The movie evidence is inconclusive for this issue. I have tried to find any part of the bridge remaining while rewatching that scene over and over again. I cannot see anything remaining, but the explosion makes it difficult to see. The novel clearly implies that the ship was destroyed though.

[Vympel]

If you're referring to what I think you're referring to- it's the wrong scene. IIRC, Vader's watching it from a window in the novel, and it's not an ISD, and there are 20 captains rather than 3 ... or am I confused ....

[Guest]

If you're referring to what I think you're referring to- it's the wrong scene. IIRC, Vader's watching it from a window in the novel, and it's not an ISD, and there are 20 captains rather than 3 ... or am I confused ....

You are correct that there are 20 captains communicating with Vader in the novel. The scene is the same in the novel except that the novel gives the Imperials 20 escort starships as opposed to 5 in the movie.

[Spartan]

Which is why that's not the same scene. The novel description states that Vader watched its destruction through a bridge window. In the film he's nowhere near the windows, and could not have seen the ship's destruction. Ie. that a different ship, in a different scene. The ship is probably one of the smaller ships mentioned in the novel not an ISD. Besides the novel describes the asteroid as enormous, the one in the film does not even begin to qualify, when compared to a 1.6km long ISD.

[Guest]

Which is why that's not the same scene. The novel description states that Vader watched its destruction through a bridge window. In the film he's nowhere near the windows, and could not have seen the ship's destruction. Ie. that a different ship, in a different scene. The ship is probably one of the smaller ships mentioned in the novel not an ISD. Besides the novel describes the asteroid as enormous, the one in the film does not even begin to qualify, when compared to a 1.6km long ISD.

Perhaps this an example of the novel describing the event differently from the movie?

[Vertigo1]

The Captain's actions aren't reflexive. It's obviously from secondary explosions- he looks over to where there is obviously trouble- looks worried, and covers his face with his hands. Not indicative of the bridge being totally annihilated.

The movie evidence is inconclusive for this issue. I have tried to find any part of the bridge remaining while rewatching that scene over and over again. I cannot see anything remaining, but the explosion makes it difficult to see. The novel clearly implies that the ship was destroyed though.

Pity that scene wasn't just a second longer....

[CmdrWilkens]

You can still see the outline of the tower through the debris cloud moving against the background of the Executor.

Really? CS posted pics in the "Shield Domes" thread ages ago, but I couldn't see the outline myself. Still, I find it hard to believe that an asteroid can make that kind of explosion. Hell, how COULD it make an explosion on its own? There's no gas in any sizeable quantity to make that kind of an explosion, therefore something else must have caused it.

The asteroid has both the energy of its mass and its Kinetic Energy. Some of that mass was undoubtably annihilated in the collision and the KE certianly had to be absorbed and redirected. My bet would be that the violent explosion we see is the shield's apply their counter force (and thus rapidly declerating and changing the energy state of the asteroid). Basically the size of the explosion is because the shield must expend energy to stop it and this violently superheats the asteroid (much like a TL hit) causing an explosion of the size we see.

[CmdrWilkens]

The Captain's actions aren't reflexive. It's obviously from secondary explosions- he looks over to where there is obviously trouble- looks worried, and covers his face with his hands. Not indicative of the bridge being totally annihilated.

The movie evidence is inconclusive for this issue. I have tried to find any part of the bridge remaining while rewatching that scene over and over again. I cannot see anything remaining, but the explosion makes it difficult to see. The novel clearly implies that the ship was destroyed though.

the novel states that a lesser vessel (actually I think it literally says smaller ship) is completely destroyed under the impact of multiple asteroids.
1) ISDs are never reffered to as smaller ships, they are always Star Destroyers or Imperial Cruisers
2) We only saw one asteroid hit and you can still see the outline of at least parts of the ship's bidge, that would make this incident quite different from that described in the novelisation.

[Lord Poe]

the novel states that a lesser vessel (actually I think it literally says smaller ship) is completely destroyed under the impact of multiple asteroids.
1) ISDs are never reffered to as smaller ships, they are always Star Destroyers or Imperial Cruisers
2) We only saw one asteroid hit and you can still see the outline of at least parts of the ship's bidge, that would make this incident quite different from that described in the novelisation.

http://h4h.com/louis/shields.html

[CmdrWilkens]

the novel states that a lesser vessel (actually I think it literally says smaller ship) is completely destroyed under the impact of multiple asteroids.
1) ISDs are never reffered to as smaller ships, they are always Star Destroyers or Imperial Cruisers
2) We only saw one asteroid hit and you can still see the outline of at least parts of the ship's bidge, that would make this incident quite different from that described in the novelisation.

http://h4h.com/louis/shields.html

That's right, all that good stuff Mr MacLeod picked up, not exactly the same theory I have but its good proof of the point here.

[Darth PhysBod]

Its difficult to see in stills, however in playback you can see the 'spine' of the tower moving relative to the orange engine glow from the executor.

Hmm...I've re-watched the vid capture and I still can't see it. I paused it the exact frame before the holo-vidconference scene and I couldn't make out anything through the flames.

If freakin' Media Player would let me take screenshots, I'd show you what I mean. Damn thing plays it in an overlay (ie: hardware) so just hitting ALT and Printscreen won't work.

And there is the problem, dont pause it, just keep replaying the scene, the only way you can pick it out[the spine] is from its movement relative to that orange glow.