Son-OF-CCN VS Cpl Kendall

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-07-23 11:57am

The topic in question starts around page 3. I'd appreciate it if any of the other Warwovles came in and dropped their two cents about the argument. It's centetered mainly over why we never see personal shields or phaser grenades or body armour in TNG era Trek. Any suggestions you might have to break through is WoI I would be grateful for as well.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-07-23 01:16pm

Photon grenades are mentioned on Voyager, and there is actually a thread in PST now about what appears to possibly be really shitty body armor on a guy.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-07-23 09:57pm

Ender wrote:Photon grenades are mentioned on Voyager, and there is actually a thread in PST now about what appears to possibly be really shitty body armor on a guy.

Yeah that body armor has been shown to stop sqaut, two redshirts died from disruptor fire hits to the torso so what ever the armor is it isn't that tough. But I'll post more after I get some rest.

Deathstalker · Post by **Deathstalker** » 2005-07-24 03:02pm

The closest thing to personal shields I've seen is the TNG episode with Picard, Crusher and Worf playing commando and Picard gets captured. When they are running around the caves, one of them drops a small disc that sets up a shield in a passageway to stop pursueres. I always wondered why we never seen them used by redshirts.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-07-24 04:27pm

As I just noted in the thread;

1. The Defient should have weapons stores that Sisko should have opened up for use on AR558. Or they should have used the vaunted replicators to fill the gap.

2. Every trooper should have the same basic kit.

3. Those 'armored' uniforms may be more like a flack jacket than full blown body armor. Med tech is pretty fucking impressive in ST. Maybe they just want to ensure that the victim lives long enough to get to sickbay rather than spend the resouces to make full blown armor.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2005-07-24 04:30pm

Didnt Worf jury rig a small shield out of a fucking com badge in "A Fistful Of Datas"?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-07-24 04:34pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:Didnt Worf jury rig a small shield out of a fucking com badge in "A Fistful Of Datas"?

Tores made a shield out of a phaser.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-07-25 12:11am

They both did. Tores made a shield for multiple people out of multiple phasers. Worf did construct a shield out of stuff he found around town and his com badge in AFOD, but it didn't last long. Long anough to stop a few bullets, anyway.

Not that it means every Redshirt has them, as I have tried to explain to Son of CCN before. Good luck, Cpl Kendall. He is very, very dense.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-07-25 02:37pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:Yeah that body armor has been shown to stop sqaut, two redshirts died from disruptor fire hits to the torso so what ever the armor is it isn't that tough.

It's probably there to protect from shrapnel rather than disruptors. Given the power of personal weapons in the Trekverse (vaporize people) I doubt armor that could stop that kind of firepower would be practical for anything less than an armored vehicle.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-07-25 02:52pm

Junghalli wrote:It's probably there to protect from shrapnel rather than disruptors. Given the power of personal weapons in the Trekverse (vaporize people) I doubt armor that could stop that kind of firepower would be practical for anything less than an armored vehicle.

Assuming this post wasn't meant to be sarcasm, why does it require large amounts of power to make things disappear into thin air (NOT vaporize)?

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2005-07-25 03:36pm

Darth Servo wrote:
Junghalli wrote:It's probably there to protect from shrapnel rather than disruptors. Given the power of personal weapons in the Trekverse (vaporize people) I doubt armor that could stop that kind of firepower would be practical for anything less than an armored vehicle.
Assuming this post wasn't meant to be sarcasm, why does it require large amounts of power to make things disappear into thin air (NOT vaporize)?

metallic Cardassian and Klingon outfits don't do jack to stop phasers.

It's possible that body armor simply don't have enough mass/density to keep the wearer from getting NDF'ed anyways without becomming infeasable.

omegaLancer · Post by **omegaLancer** » 2005-07-25 03:42pm

But there are form of armor that do, what about the outfit used in the DS9 episode where alien hunter track their prey to DS9. They seem pretty much immune to the effect of phaser.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-07-25 04:15pm

omegaLancer wrote:But there are form of armor that do, what about the outfit used in the DS9 episode where alien hunter track their prey to DS9. They seem pretty much immune to the effect of phaser.

Thats not saying much since in TNG's "Conspiracy" a fricken PAINTING wasn't effected by a kill setting phaser.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-07-25 04:54pm

Darth Servo wrote:
Thats not saying much since in TNG's "Conspiracy" a fricken PAINTING wasn't effected by a kill setting phaser.

Probably used lead based paint.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-07-25 04:56pm

Matt Huang wrote:
metallic Cardassian and Klingon outfits don't do jack to stop phasers.

It's possible that body armor simply don't have enough mass/density to keep the wearer from getting NDF'ed anyways without becomming infeasable.

Those oputfits aren't actually armor you know, there just uniforms that in the Klingons case happen to use alot of heavy leather. The Cardie uniforms don't seem to incorprate any armor at all. There just puffy.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2005-07-26 03:51pm

We don't know what kind of energy is required to phasorize a human target, but we do know phasers can pump out ~2 MW in the form of heat. Building armor that can keep the user alive without being excessively bulky may not be cost efficient/possible.

[[[The 2 MW is actually consistent in the series AFAIK so I'm inclined to buy it; direct statement of phaser output says 2 MW, 10 MJ to transport two people a short distance in "The Outcast" so using a phaser to transport one person (should be about 5 MJ) in another TNG episode (could be "The Hunted"?) is about right. Heating rocks the way we've seen also agrees.]]]

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2005-07-27 01:48pm

Shit I have played both Halos and the funniest thought keeps running through my head...Janeway with a Covenant plasma grenade attached to her screaming get it off.....

The humans in the game are set up beter than Starfleet is. The have an actual armory you can enter on the Pillar of Autum and it has a variety of weapons in it...pistols,shotguns,and even Rocket launchers. Only guys wearing suits and firing pistols during the boarding at the start of the game are crew mebers caught in the open. Even then they had marines with Rifles and armor helping out.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-07-27 03:03pm

Shit I have played both Halos and the funniest thought keeps running through my head...Janeway with a Covenant plasma grenade attached to her screaming get it off.....

The humans in the game are set up beter than Starfleet is. The have an actual armory you can enter on the Pillar of Autum and it has a variety of weapons in it...pistols,shotguns,and even Rocket launchers. Only guys wearing suits and firing pistols during the boarding at the start of the game are crew mebers caught in the open. Even then they had marines with Rifles and armor helping out.

Its been pretty much establish that the UNSC humans beat the Federation on both land and in space. Body armor, weapons diversity, and ergonomics are good things apparently, who'd of thunk it?

Adam Reynolds · Post by **Adam Reynolds** » 2005-07-28 03:43am

One point I thought of while reading What Son of CNN said about how some people don't have body armor is how that means that Star Wars police (Naboo guards) are more advanced than the regular military of the Federation.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-07-28 05:56pm

Adamskywalker007 wrote:One point I thought of while reading What Son of CNN said about how some people don't have body armor is how that means that Star Wars police (Naboo guards) are more advanced than the regular military of the Federation.

Yup, chalk another point up for Wars.