You are captain of a cloaked Romulan Warbird

[Simon_Jester]

Why are we assuming that the ISD can't detect the cloaked warbird?

Because everyone else is more interested in coming up with an interesting tactical scenario to deal with overwhelming technical superiority than in stropping their versus-debating claws?

Based on what canonical evidence do you disagree?

Based on This, the Enterprise-D produces ~50,000 times less power than a 30 year old Star Wars troop transport, and its main weapons are ~80 million times less powerful (although photon torpedoes are only 37,000 times less powerful than the heavy guns on an Acclamator). Given that the Enterprise-D is approximately on par with a Warbird, you're fooling yourself if you don't think it's an absurd mismatch, even if you assume the Wars numbers are overstated and the Trek numbers are understated.

...And everyone else is more interested in coming up with a plan that doesn't depend on how much electricity the ships generate, while you're busy reviewing with great pleasure how the ISD generates more electricity and therefore wins at everything?

[DudeGuyMan]

A single Imperial Star destroyer (Imperator class), has laid siege to one of your planets with a major science facility. It does not have GCT sensors, however it is aware of the potential of cloaked enemy ships and has its shields raised and is on full alert. In addition, tie fighters are running routine patrols in anticipation of a potential attack.

The ground invasion has not been launched yet, but you anticipate it will be soon. Expectations are that it will be an all out invasion force intent on capturing as much of the facility intact as possible and should involve the a large number of the storm troopers on board the ISD.

Your vessel is a D'deridex-class, and is fully functional. Your mission is to destory this ISD through any means at your disposal. How will you accomplish this mission?

I slip past the ISD, destroy the science facility with one large alpha-strike to prevent it from being captured intact, and flee. If my superiors choose to execute me for failing to accomplish an impossible mission, well, I'm no more dead than if I killed myself attacking a Star Destroyer.

[Norade]

The OP states that it's me and not just some random schmo running the ship and as such I send the Imperials a message from my private quarters, give coordinates, have the ship disabled, and join the team with better tech. Is it cheating? Maybe. Is it better odds than trying to kill an ISD? Likely.

[Big Phil]

Why are we assuming that the ISD can't detect the cloaked warbird?

Because everyone else is more interested in coming up with an interesting tactical scenario to deal with overwhelming technical superiority than in stropping their versus-debating claws?

Based on what canonical evidence do you disagree?

Based on This, the Enterprise-D produces ~50,000 times less power than a 30 year old Star Wars troop transport, and its main weapons are ~80 million times less powerful (although photon torpedoes are only 37,000 times less powerful than the heavy guns on an Acclamator). Given that the Enterprise-D is approximately on par with a Warbird, you're fooling yourself if you don't think it's an absurd mismatch, even if you assume the Wars numbers are overstated and the Trek numbers are understated.

...And everyone else is more interested in coming up with a plan that doesn't depend on how much electricity the ships generate, while you're busy reviewing with great pleasure how the ISD generates more electricity and therefore wins at everything?

That's pretty ironic criticism from someone who

a) has not participated in this thread, and
b) is criticism my original post 21 days after it was made


But please don't let me stop you from participating in this thread by coming up with interesting tactical approaches feeling the need to play backseat moderator

[TheHammer]

A single Imperial Star destroyer (Imperator class), has laid siege to one of your planets with a major science facility. It does not have GCT sensors, however it is aware of the potential of cloaked enemy ships and has its shields raised and is on full alert. In addition, tie fighters are running routine patrols in anticipation of a potential attack.

The ground invasion has not been launched yet, but you anticipate it will be soon. Expectations are that it will be an all out invasion force intent on capturing as much of the facility intact as possible and should involve the a large number of the storm troopers on board the ISD.

Your vessel is a D'deridex-class, and is fully functional. Your mission is to destory this ISD through any means at your disposal. How will you accomplish this mission?

I slip past the ISD, destroy the science facility with one large alpha-strike to prevent it from being captured intact, and flee. If my superiors choose to execute me for failing to accomplish an impossible mission, well, I'm no more dead than if I killed myself attacking a Star Destroyer.

Mr DudeGuyMan, this isn't mission difficult, it's mission impossible. "Difficult" should be a walk in the park for you.

As always, should any member of your crew be caught or killed, the tal shiar will disavow all knowledge of your actions.

[Big Phil]

Something that just occurred to me as a result of dudeguydude's post:

Perhaps this was unintentional, but the presence of the science station on the planet below is irrelevant to the stated objective (destroy the ISD). That doesn't make the mission any easier; it would be easier to prevent the station from falling into Imperial hands (by destroying it, rescuing the scientists and their work, etc.), but it is something worth mentioning.

[TheHammer]

Something that just occurred to me as a result of dudeguydude's post:

Perhaps this was unintentional, but the presence of the science station on the planet below is irrelevant to the stated objective (destroy the ISD). That doesn't make the mission any easier; it would be easier to prevent the station from falling into Imperial hands (by destroying it, rescuing the scientists and their work, etc.), but it is something worth mentioning.

Its not really irrelevent. It does a few things: first of all, it allows for methods of infiltration of the ISD, or a way to get past its shields and armor when ships are launched and recovered. Second it gives the ISD a reason to sit in Orbit and thus allow for a plan to defeat it to be concocted and enacted.

Obviously, destroying the science facility would probably be prefferable to letting it fall into Imperial plans, but clearly would not be the first option - If the Imperials wanted it in the first place it must have great signficance.

A warbird under most circumstances would have no chance against an ISD. But under certain circumstances, using creating tactics, I believe an ISD could be destroyed with the resources at a warbird's disposal.

[Batman]

Actually, if keeping the Imperials from getting their hands on the contents of the research station were the objective, destroying it (after having uploaded their data/beamed up whatever it is that makes that site so damn important) would be the first option, given there's jack all the D'Deridex can do to an ISD in a straight-up fight. Uploading/beaming up while cloaked, trashing what's left and then Warping away in a hurry is almost guaranteed to work while any scenario that lets them actually hurt leave alone destroy the Star Destroyer is going to involve a lot of ifs and maybe.

[TheHammer]

On the other hand, whatever they are researching could be important enough to try and save.

Assume that the facility will self destruct if you are unable to destroy/disable the ISD. And assume that the research is not so easily transported.

[Big Phil]

On the other hand, whatever they are researching could be important enough to try and save.

Assume that the facility will self destruct if you are unable to destroy/disable the ISD. And assume that the research is not so easily transported.

Dude... the research station played no role in the OP in the first place. Your stated objective was "destroy the ISD," with no mention of the research station

[Rommel123]

A warbird under most circumstances would have no chance against an ISD. But under certain circumstances, using creating tactics, I believe an ISD could be destroyed with the resources at a warbird's disposal.

Assuming locally-accepted firepower figures, it would be easiest to beam off ISD's powerplant (or at east several important parts) and then it's easy job (probably, depending whether ISD has secondary power sources and how powerful these are).

[Big Phil]

A warbird under most circumstances would have no chance against an ISD. But under certain circumstances, using creating tactics, I believe an ISD could be destroyed with the resources at a warbird's disposal.

Assuming locally-accepted firepower figures, it would be easiest to beam off ISD's powerplant (or at east several important parts) and then it's easy job (probably, depending whether ISD has secondary power sources and how powerful these are).

Because that has happened in Star Trek ever? Shit, why not suggest warp strafing or the Picard maneuver?

[TheHammer]

On the other hand, whatever they are researching could be important enough to try and save.

Assume that the facility will self destruct if you are unable to destroy/disable the ISD. And assume that the research is not so easily transported.

Dude... the research station played no role in the OP in the first place. Your stated objective was "destroy the ISD," with no mention of the research station

I'm altering the deal


You are correct the research station plays no real role other than to have an objective for which the ISD is attacking the planet. The added detail is to address the tangent of destroying the research facility as a means for a partial victory. The stated goal is, as you said, to destroy the ISD (or otherwise render it inoperable).

[Azron_Stoma]

On the other hand, whatever they are researching could be important enough to try and save.

Assume that the facility will self destruct if you are unable to destroy/disable the ISD. And assume that the research is not so easily transported.

Dude... the research station played no role in the OP in the first place. Your stated objective was "destroy the ISD," with no mention of the research station

I'm altering the deal


You are correct the research station plays no real role other than to have an objective for which the ISD is attacking the planet. The added detail is to address the tangent of destroying the research facility as a means for a partial victory. The stated goal is, as you said, to destroy the ISD (or otherwise render it inoperable).

Which when you get right down to it is only the objective because they want to keep the research station out of Imperial hands.

A warbird under most circumstances would have no chance against an ISD. But under certain circumstances, using creating tactics, I believe an ISD could be destroyed with the resources at a warbird's disposal.

Assuming locally-accepted firepower figures, it would be easiest to beam off ISD's powerplant (or at east several important parts) and then it's easy job (probably, depending whether ISD has secondary power sources and how powerful these are).

That is one of the worst ideas in a long sad history of bad ideas.

[Batman]

1. The objective is what the thread creator says it is, that being the killing of the ISD. Yes, killing the research outpost and getting away with the results /denying the Imperials the results of whatever that outpost was researching would suffice, if that were the intended outcome. It's not. We're supposed to kill the ISD.
2. Err-given that transporters are disrupted by pretty much anything, how exactly does Rommel123 expect them to work through TT to PT level shielding, neutronium-impregnated armour etc?

[Darth Tedious]

Let's assume for a second that the ISD captain is a complete retard and has his shields down for no good reason.
There is evidence that transporters work through neutronium (VOY: 'Think Tank'). Unfortunately, there is much more evidence that scanners don't. So finding the reactor could be a trifle difficult....

[Connor MacLeod]

The neutronium argument is a bit silly since we don't really know (in a SW context) whether it's real neutronium or not. I think Curtis always figured it was, but that's not really evident in the proof. If it is RL neutronium, then its presence in the armor is not as an inert damage-stopping mechanism, because of its insane density and need for some means of confining it (EG it probably would be an element in some damage-handling mechanism rather than just a huge slab of material.) If it's "other" neutronium, than whether or not it can actually be scanned/transported through/whatever is entirely up for debate. Hell even if it's "real" neutronium, there's sitll debate whether or not the hull will block it.

The real problem with the OP as set up is that the ISD is pretty much in a position and already executing its orders, expecting assault. There's very little reason to expect a transporter to beam through shields (why should the matter stream not be stopped? It's not as if it's going to be any less penetrating than a particle beam weapon, and even if it does somehow penetrate, how does one scan through the shields?)

Also it's damn hard to get close to the ISD without operating under power (There's alot of variables to consider when discussing whether or not an ISD can detect a cloaked ship. It's not just an either/or thing. If the ship is running at low power, or with engines silent, is it as detectable as it might be say, running full out?) I vaguely recall using tachyons to track them, but I don't recall how they were used. If it's active sensing and they penetrate the cloak, then the Warbird is probably fucked.

Best I can figure is that the cloaked ship runs up to some orbital velocity whilst behind the planet then tries to come out underneath the ISD. THey have to lower shields to let transports and fighters in and out, so that would be the only window possibly to do something. And it is possible to cripple/destroy an ISD if you get an explosive into the hangar bay (it's not guaranteed, but it might be done. I know it's happened at least once (The Invincible from X-wing, although using an unknown type of warhead) and I dont even know if Warbirds come with any sort of deployable munition. Other than that, trying to capture a shuttle on teh ground and smuggle something onboard are the only options.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

A warbird under most circumstances would have no chance against an ISD. But under certain circumstances, using creating tactics, I believe an ISD could be destroyed with the resources at a warbird's disposal.

Assuming locally-accepted firepower figures, it would be easiest to beam off ISD's powerplant (or at east several important parts) and then it's easy job (probably, depending whether ISD has secondary power sources and how powerful these are).

That is one of the worst ideas in a long sad history of bad ideas.

Why stop there? Why not have the Warbird hook the ISD's reactor up to their own singularity so they have a hypermatter-powered warbird?

[Connor MacLeod]

further thoughts.

It actually might be possible to damage the ship severly, possibly destroy it, via the hangar. Aside from having all those fighters and shuttles and potentially volatile fule and munitions (depends on how the ship is outfitted nd what the small craft are designed as.) there is also the fact that the power distribution networks and (often) the fuel tanks run along a starship's centerline. We know in the ROTJ novelization that the Imperial communications ship (A Star Destroyer variant) was attacked and destroyed via the hangar. And of course there was the Droid Control ship in TPM (although the reactors in the ISD are separated by hundreds of metres of decking from the hangar so that won't work.) I still don't know what sorts of munitions the Warbird is supposed to have (I just know they shoot green glowy shit at their enemies usually and have disruptors at least) but It's a potential avenue of attack.

Another option is simply ramming. KE would suck ass but sheer momentum from the warbird might actually cripple or destroy the ship if you targeted a certain point (Again the hangar is an obvious one, or the command bridge.)

It also occured to me that even if FTL sensors would pierce a cloaking device, that an ISD would not neccesarily have those sensors located all over the ship. FLT sensors and comms are generally (as I recall) on the command tower on top, to give them good line of sight at long range The Warbird might be able to approach from a blind side and minimize detection time (at least - sensors are not going to be another absolute either/or situation)

[DudeGuyMan]

Preventing capture of the science station wasn't a stated objective, but it seemed like the logical thing to do and about the only thing I could do to salvage anything positive from what is an otherwise essentially hopeless scenario. Bitch me out at my court martial if you want, but if there are Star Destroyers running around our space raising hell then I think we'll have bigger problems.

I like Connor's idea of lurking beneath it and trying to fire a salvo into the hangar as shuttles and fighters are coming and going. If I'm a really ballsy and patriotic Romulan captain, I'll blow away the science facility, pretend to flee, then come back around under cloak and wait for my shot. Given that this facility was important enough to try and capture, they're bound to stick around long enough to at least pick through the ashes a bit.

It might not work out that well, especially since the OP states the Imperials are aware of the risk of cloaked ships, but it's the most realistic plan for doing anything to the ISD besides bouncing something off the shields and being instantly killed for our trouble.

[Azron_Stoma]

If the Imperials know of the threat a cloaked romulan ship can provide then it's very likely they would have TIE Scouts launched before entering hyperspace to the system (since TIE Scouts have their own hyperdrives) Then the TIE Scouts would seach for cloaked ships before launching/landing shuttles.

[Connor MacLeod]

If the Imperials know of the threat a cloaked romulan ship can provide then it's very likely they would have TIE Scouts launched before entering hyperspace to the system (since TIE Scouts have their own hyperdrives) Then the TIE Scouts would seach for cloaked ships before launching/landing shuttles.

That depends entirely on how SW FTL sensors work. As I said we know they have tachyonic sensors, but there's nothing ever suggesting that such sensors are actually active ones. They could be passive for all we know (detecting the tachyonic matter of hyperdrives and/or hypermattter powerplants, or related tech, for example.)

[Connor MacLeod]

I like Connor's idea of lurking beneath it and trying to fire a salvo into the hangar as shuttles and fighters are coming and going. If I'm a really ballsy and patriotic Romulan captain, I'll blow away the science facility, pretend to flee, then come back around under cloak and wait for my shot. Given that this facility was important enough to try and capture, they're bound to stick around long enough to at least pick through the ashes a bit.

It might not work out that well, especially since the OP states the Imperials are aware of the risk of cloaked ships, but it's the most realistic plan for doing anything to the ISD besides bouncing something off the shields and being instantly killed for our trouble.

Frankly I'm just making shots in the dark given the scenario as presented, but I actually think it's pretty silly overall. I mean, if an ISD just appears out of nowhere by surprise and manages to launch an invasion from orbit by the time I as a Romulan Captain become involved, then I'm pretty badly screwed. I haven't got time to plan, or make preparations, and I don't have any advantage of position or anything. I'm frankly amazed that the Warbird would make it into the system undetected (unless it was already there, just happening ot be sitting under cloak for some reason....)

It makes a bit more sense for me if the ISD was somehow given reason to think some base or outpost was here and deployed to search it out. That gives me, as the Warbird captain, more time and options to exploit in order to possibly defeat it, and thus makes this more of an interesting intellectual exercise.

I mean, if the ISD had to make an approach, I could do some sort of cloaked ramming attack on the bridge area, given time to accelerate up to a certain speed and on a course. Or maybe I might try deploying some sort of inert munitions (if I knew about some of the weaknesses in certain kinds of SW shielding, like the velocity dependence, I might have to try to work out some way to deploy the mines at a low enough relative velocity so as not to trigger the shields, or something.)