Crossbreeding

[RedImperator]

You're a bureaucrat with the Imperial Bureau of Records and Archives sent to the newly conquered Milky Way galaxy to start cataloguing native intelligent species. Shortly into the project, you discover an astonishing fact most ST viewers know already: these apparently "alien" species nearly all look like each other, think like each other, and, worse, successfully BREED with each other. His Imperial Majesty is not going to wait around forever for your report (actually, he'll probably never see it, but you've got a supervisor back on Coruscant itching for an excuse to transfer you to the Nar Hutta tax collection office thanks to a little incident with his wife at last year's office New Year's party), so you need to find an explanation for this mess soon. Using Star Trek canon and basic knowledge of biology, what's the explanation?

Here's mine: The various "species" we see in Trek, with a few exceptions like the Voth or S8472, are actually subspecies of one single species. This has nothing to do with that "DNA seeding" nonsense--4 billion years of evolution, on thousands or millions of different planets, will not produce a pack of beings so similar they can donate blood to each other and breed successfully. Somehow, one sapient or proto-sapient species got transported all over the galaxy, probably less than a million years ago, and so divergent evolution has had enough time to move a few internal organs around or produce funny bumps on one subspecies' head, but not enough to make breeding impossible. And since we know (or assume) that real-life human anthropology is canon in Star Trek, and we know there's overwhelming fossil evidence that humans evolved on Earth, the seed species must have been some kind of proto-human. Ironically, humans then dillydallied around on Earth technologically and ended up behind the rest of the AQ until the Vulcans brought them up to the local standard. This theory also explains the rough technological parity of most AQ powers. Logically, there would be vast gaps between different species, as historical blips that barely register on geological or astronomical timelines produce 1,000,000 year development gaps between races, but Trek is littered with spacefaring powers that are, at most, a few centuries apart. Anyway, it's a theory, trying to rationalize one lump of Trek pseudoscience away (one that can't, for once, be blamed on B&B--Spock, straight from the brain of Roddenberry, was a human-Vulcan crossbreed). Say, is the crossbreeding aliens another Trek brain bug? As I recall, half-breeds were rare in TOS--Spock might have been the only one--but common in TNG.

[Master of Ossus]

This whole thing on species is more complicated than it appears. At the risk of an Imperial Smackdown (TM), I must nitpick one thing that Mike Wong said in this discussion. Species are not defined solely on their ability to breed and create fertile offspring. Lions and Tigers are considered different species because Lions can breed with Leopards and Tigers cannot. However, the offspring of a lion and a tiger (a "Liger" [where do they come up with these names?]) is fertile. In fact, it is bigger than either a lion or a tiger (if it resulted from a male lion and a female tiger). It can succesfully breed with either species, but not with Leopards. The two are deemed different species because they cannot completely breed with the same species that the other one can, and because they clearly look different and exhibit different properties.

The point, however, is that all "species" in ST seem to be able to breed freely with each other and produce fertile offspring. This has been observed in SEVERAL cases, including some that overlap. I, however, believe that the "species" for the most part, MIGHT have been properly classified as being different. This can be rationalized. For instance, the offspring of a Bajoran and a Cardassian is known to be fertile, but perhaps they cannot breed and have children with Klingons (speculation), whereas the Bajorans can. Humans can breed with either Vulcans or Klingons, but perhaps Spock could not have bred with Klingons, whereas a human can. I know that this is a CRAPPY explanation, as the term "species" seems to be used very liberally in ST, but it is possible.

On the other hand, the preponderance of evidence suggests that these different species are, for the most part, actually different races. There are some exceptions, Trill, for instance, seem to be different species than humans because they can host a symbiont, but for the most part Klingons, Romulans, Vulcans, Bajorans, Humans, etc. seem to merely be different races. I think that it is more likely than my above explanation that they have either redefined the term "species" in ST, or they have actually mislabeled the different races as different species.

[RedImperator]

I like your idea, actually. Couldn't it be possible as the origin species began to diverge into different branches, the combined differences from the base genetic stock has already made it impossible for members of some branches to reproduce with others? We're adding speculation on top of speculation now, but there's no reason it couldn't be true.

[Master of Ossus]

I like your idea, actually. Couldn't it be possible as the origin species began to diverge into different branches, the combined differences from the base genetic stock has already made it impossible for members of some branches to reproduce with others? We're adding speculation on top of speculation now, but there's no reason it couldn't be true.

Actually, "there's no reason it couldn't be true" is a bit weak. Rather, this theory HELPS to explain SOME of what we hear in ST about species vs. races. It MIGHT not be true, and much of it is speculative (that is true) but it also helps rationalize what we know in RL with what we hear on television. This might be an interesting theory, though there is really no evidence for or agaisnt it. I am proposing it not because it might not be untrue, but rather, because it helps explain much of what we know and hear. It is a reasonably valid theory, therefor, IMHO. BTW, I'm not saying that Wong's theory is completely wrong. It might also be true, but I don't see that there is any more evidence supporting what he said in his essay on the matter than there is supporting this theory.

[johnmarkley]

Here's mine: The various "species" we see in Trek, with a few exceptions like the Voth or S8472, are actually subspecies of one single species. This has nothing to do with that "DNA seeding" nonsense--4 billion years of evolution, on thousands or millions of different planets, will not produce a pack of beings so similar they can donate blood to each other and breed successfully. Somehow, one sapient or proto-sapient species got transported all over the galaxy, probably less than a million years ago, and so divergent evolution has had enough time to move a few internal organs around or produce funny bumps on one subspecies' head, but not enough to make breeding impossible. And since we know (or assume) that real-life human anthropology is canon in Star Trek, and we know there's overwhelming fossil evidence that humans evolved on Earth, the seed species must have been some kind of proto-human.

This seems like the best explanation. There's actually something like this in canon, if memory serves: Kirk and his crew once encountered a planet where humans (American Indians, I think) lived, having been transplanted from Earth by a mysterious alien species called "Preservers." Perhaps the the various human or near-human races were likewise the products of Preserver transplanting.

[Peregrin Toker]

Hmmm... maybe the "progenitors" from TNG's episode The Chase were lying, and all the humanoid species actually are vestiges of a million-year old civilization whose domain spanned the galaxy??
This idea of a galaxy-spanning civilization can explain why an alternate timeline in ST: Voyager (I think it was Before And After) showed Tom Paris producing offspring with an Ocampa (of course, after B'Elanna had been killed when the Voyager was attacked by the Krenim).... who, in turn, had a son with Harry Kim...

[The Yosemite Bear]

Well using Magic it's certainly possible.

I recall a theory Put out during the earily Eighties that someone had created a Retroviris that basicly bridged the gaps. In the Diamond Age novels you could even change your speicies and your gender, so what else could be possible.

[Mr. B]

Wow, I never realized how inbred and incestious ST is. Figures, thats what B&B are.

[consequences]

ST, hillbillies in space

[Mr Bean]

ST, hillbillies in space

Yep

[Master of Ossus]

Retroviruses do not explain what we see. If an entire being's DNA was altered to be human, then they would be human, and they would not maintain any of their original features that were not also human features. There is no reason for their reproductive organs to become human-compatible where before they were not. This is especially the case because when aliens in ST have babies, they always come out looking at least a lot like the aliens that are their parents. This is inconsistent with retro-viruses.

[RedImperator]

Would crossbreeding aliens count as a brain bug? After all, Spock could have been a special case: maybe his parents were the only human-Vulcan couple in the galaxy, and in order to have children, their DNA was combined in a lab. Or Spock could have been a pure-blooded Vulcan, adopted by Sarek or born to a surrogate Vulcan mother, and he was only FIGURATIVELY half-human. The only human characteristic Spock ever displyed was the occasional battle with his emotions, and we learned later ALL Vulcans must do so; not having emotions is a philosophy and a way of life, not a natural condition. THen comes TNG, with a half Betazed (who looks ENTIRELY like a human woman with a so-so face and a nice rack), half-Klingon Torres, that irritating girl on Voyager with the spikes in her head, etc. In TOS, we see one hybrid who's considered pretty remarkable. In the later series, especially the B&B era, aliens are having sex with each other all willy-nilly and human-Vulcan-Klingon-Betazed-Ferengi hybrids are running around the universe.

[Master of Ossus]

Would crossbreeding aliens count as a brain bug?

Of course they would. Even Spock's pedigree is illogical.

[Peregrin Toker]

aliens are having sex with each other all willy-nilly and human-Vulcan-Klingon-Betazed-Ferengi hybrids are running around the universe.

Actually, we have never seen Ferengi crossbreeds....

Perhaps the Ferengi are at last incapable of crossbreeding with other species?? Let's face it.... they are some of the least human of the humanoid species in the Alpha Quadrant.... (They have a much different brain structure, for example)

[RedImperator]

Good point. Though Ferengi DO find other humanoids sexually attractive, which shouldn't make much sense if they're a different species. But as you pointed out, their brain structure is different from other humanoids, so perhaps they look humanoid thanks to convergent evolution, not common ancestry. I'm sure B&B will clear this up for us ,probably with a future Enterprise episode featuring T'Pol or Hoshi getting knocked up by a Ferengi, with some convoluted plot device to explain how there's no record of this incident by the time of TNG.

[Vapthorne]

"Good point. Though Ferengi DO find other humanoids sexually attractive, which shouldn't make much sense if they're a different species. "

True, there are some Ferengi who find humaniods, much like there are Hutts who take human slave girls and even such people who commit beastity.

[Typhonis 1]

In Voyager didnt a Cardassian and a Kazon have a child???I mean what are the odds of two species from opposite ends of the Galaxy being genetically compatible?

[Master of Ossus]

In Voyager didnt a Cardassian and a Kazon have a child???I mean what are the odds of two species from opposite ends of the Galaxy being genetically compatible?

Essentially zero (almost infinitely small), unless they shared some kind of common origin (perhaps the Founders, or what have you). Note that the odds would not be lower than the odds of two species on neighboring worlds that had had no contact with each other, and on which life began separately and independently.

[Perinquus]

I really wish Roddenberry hadn't come up with this one way back in the sixties (would it have killed him to make Spock a full Vulcan and have the whole emotional conflict thing come from just the Vulcan philosophy of suppressing all emotion?)

As the late Carl Sagan once said: you would have a greater chance of successfully crossbreeding a human being with an artichoke than with an alien life form. I think the idea of the Preservers, or beings like them seeding the ST glaaxy with humans is the only remotely satisfactory explanation. Several thousand years divergent evolution might make some races genetically incompatible, and leave others able to interbreed.

Of course, that still leaves us with the quandary of how to explain human/Vulcan and human/Romulan hybrids. There is absolutely no way that human should be able to interbreed with an alien species that has an entirely different arrangement of internal organs, and green, copper-based blood, but we're stuck with it.

BTW, for a pretty good story that deals (somewhat) with divergent evolution and interbreeding of humans thousands of years out of contact with each other on different worlds, check out the short story "Starfog" by Poul Anderson.

[Lt. Nebfer]

One word Bill Gates!!!!!!! he did it he has the mone(for all we know he coud be one)

[Eleas]

I think the idea of the Preservers, or beings like them seeding the ST glaaxy with humans is the only remotely satisfactory explanation. Several thousand years divergent evolution might make some races genetically incompatible, and leave others able to interbreed.

The idea that the Preservers weren't unique to the ST galaxy could handily explain the prescence of humans in SW.

[Patrick Ogaard]

The presence of the Preservers could also explain not only the presence of the ETs both on Earth and in the Galactic Senate, as well as the presence of the Bith not only as musicians in the Mos Eisley cantina but also apparently as crashlanded aliens on Earth. (Of course, the ETs could be explained extrinsically as a nod to GL's buddy Steven Spielberg, just as the Bith could be explained as a nod to Robert Duvall, who not only starred in GL's student film but also played a human agent altered to match the appearance of some crashlanded aliens in the episode "The Chameleon" of the original version of "The Outer Limits.")