Reason with me on my questions and statements. Please.

[Batman]

I can't speak for anybody else but yes, I personally like the feel of physically rolling dice. I realize that feeling this makes a game that is make believe to begin with seem more real is patently silly...
Screw the rationalization. I just like rolling dice.

[Spoonist]

Why do you want to be such an idiot Stark? Are you really trying to argue against human nature? Your futile rants about how laughable humans are for being human is really self defeating. Its like arguing against microrewards in computer games. Such things simply cater to how we are wired, there simply isn't much you can do about it.

Instead lets move on to your line of thinking that dice have crippled innovation in the pnp RPG market. How do you figure that? What would a RNG possibly bring that would be better to the things I refered to with the apps for fluff, not only RNG?
Can you really see a scenario or have an example where a simplistic RNG like you described could create innovation for pnp RPGs?

[Havok]

I'm saying its intellectually lazy for people to constantly go to one book like its biblical canon rather than thinking for themselves.

Uh, people do this all the time. They are called scientists and researchers and doctors.

There is no reason to re-research or re-calc something you are pretty much 100% certain, along with everyone else, is correct.

[Havok]

Why do you want to be such an idiot Stark? Are you really trying to argue against human nature? Your futile rants about how laughable humans are for being human is really self defeating. Its like arguing against microrewards in computer games. Such things simply cater to how we are wired, there simply isn't much you can do about it.

Instead lets move on to your line of thinking that dice have crippled innovation in the pnp RPG market. How do you figure that? What would a RNG possibly bring that would be better to the things I refered to with the apps for fluff, not only RNG?
Can you really see a scenario or have an example where a simplistic RNG like you described could create innovation for pnp RPGs?

Uh, Stark isn't arguing against human nature, he is saying it is stupid. And it is more 'nerd nature' than human nature he is laughing at.

[Stark]

Why do you want to be such an idiot Stark? Are you really trying to argue against human nature?

Wanting everything to be the same all the time might be 'human nature', but its not laudable. PS, people who aren't you can handle change fine.

Your futile rants about how laughable humans are for being human is really self defeating. Its like arguing against microrewards in computer games. Such things simply cater to how we are wired, there simply isn't much you can do about it.

Except one is driving positive change and increasing the work/reward levels of games and the other... isn't?

Instead lets move on to your line of thinking that dice have crippled innovation in the pnp RPG market. How do you figure that?

You mean how games are designed around the limited results available with dice (and indeed are sometimes defined by what method they use to extract results from dice) rather than simply saying 'here are some mechanics and an app that runs all the maths for you'? I mean, sure, pnp RPGs are a tiny niche inhabited by people who have been captured by the marketing, but still.

What would a RNG possibly bring that would be better to the things I refered to with the apps for fluff, not only RNG?

Who cares what you said? They make finding results faster, reduce the scope for cheating or arguing about bullshit, and allow mechanics to not be constrained by physical objects. I know that's meaningless next to the feeling power TRUE POWER you get with a handful of dice, but honestly.

The biggest lol for me is the circular nature of the relationship between dice (and dice dependent people) and old RPGs. Some RPGs were designed to use regular dice to be more accessible, some were designed to use every obscure bullshit dice ever to be elite, and the hugely overpriced dice manufacturers were supported by the warm fuzzy feelings schoolkids got by throwing bones.

EDIT - Shhh, Hav. Spoonist just hates me, which is why he can't actually talk about pros and cons. Even fucking Batman can freely admit he just likes rolling dice around. Irrational behaviour that is enjoyable? FUCKING STOP THE PRESS

[Havok]

Blake's 7

[Spoonist]

Are you really trying to argue against human nature? Your futile rants about how laughable humans are for being human is really self defeating. .

Uh, Stark isn't arguing against human nature, he is saying it is stupid. And it is more 'nerd nature' than human nature he is laughing at.

Actually, this is definately not limited to nerd culture, rather the opposite. Its almost exclusively within nerd culture, like Stark's suggestion, that you see it put forward to replace dice with RNG. Hence my casino-craps example above. The most obvious example being Yatzee, one of if not the most selling game of all time, all since the C64 and early PC's attempts has been made to get people to switch to digital dice for the reasons Stark mention. Ordinary people won't have it. There are plenty of yatzee apps, but they don't offer the basic game for multiple players.
An app would be much more effecient, not only for RNG but also scorekeeping etc. But it does not give the same feeling - hence human nature preventing such a switch.
Then I agree that lots of human nature is laughable, that is OK, most of stand-up comedy works on this principle. But you can't really argue against the gaming companies for catering to human nature. Saying that they somehow would be at fault and limiting their creativity by using dice instead of RNG is missing that using physical dice drive sales in a lot of those games. Its one thing to laugh at the human nature driving the CCG market and pointing out that people who buy into them are suckers, I'm fine with that. But to argue that the producers of CCG should switch to a different model due to those same things is stupid.

EDIT - Shhh, Hav. Spoonist just hates me, which is why he can't actually talk about pros and cons.

Gotta run, so I'll respond to the rest later but this stuck out. Do we have any such history? I can't really recall any such discussions which would motivate this?

[Jedipilot24]

Exactly - It's just like how I prefer to write off Han's boast about making the Kessel Run in under 12 parsecs as him being full of hot air, and betting that Luke wouldn't know enough to call him out on it.

Actually there is an explanation for that: The Kessel Run, as described on the Wook and the Han Solo Trilogy, is a smuggler's route (normally 18 parsecs long) near a cluster of black holes. If you want to do it in less than 18 parsecs, you have to get dangerously close to the black holes and surviving that requires both a fast ship and a very good pilot.
So making the run isn't just a matter of doing it fast, it's also a matter of distance: the closer you get to the black holes, the shorter your overall distance (which also means a faster run, both because of the shorter distance and because of the space-time warping effects of the black holes) but that also comes with the increased risk of losing your ship. The reason why smuggler's would actually be willing to take such insane risks? They're hauling glitterstim spice, which is the Star Wars equivalent of cocaine: It's highly illegal--which is why Han dumped it when he ran into Imperials-- and very expensive on the black market--which is why he was hauling it and why he had problems paying off Jabba.

[Metahive]

Actually there is an explanation for that: The Kessel Run, as described on the Wook and the Han Solo Trilogy, is a smuggler's route (normally 18 parsecs long) near a cluster of black holes. If you want to do it in less than 18 parsecs, you have to get dangerously close to the black holes and surviving that requires both a fast ship and a very good pilot.
So making the run isn't just a matter of doing it fast, it's also a matter of distance: the closer you get to the black holes, the shorter your overall distance (which also means a faster run, both because of the shorter distance and because of the space-time warping effects of the black holes) but that also comes with the increased risk of losing your ship. The reason why smuggler's would actually be willing to take such insane risks? They're hauling glitterstim spice, which is the Star Wars equivalent of cocaine: It's highly illegal--which is why Han dumped it when he ran into Imperials-- and very expensive on the black market--which is why he was hauling it and why he had problems paying off Jabba.

Eh, I think most people here are familiar with this particular bit of EU nonsense. It's only that most would also like to pretend it never existed. Because, you know, it's one of those things that sound incredibly forced, contrived, ridiculous and stupid and there's already a much better explanation ("Han tries to woo two country bumpkins with BS") available which is also supported by the original script.

[Batman]

To put things into perspective, 12 vs 18 parsecs means 39.12 vs 58.68 lightyears. At Wars hyperdrive speeds especially for the Falcon, which is supposed to be unusually fast FTL, that'd be...less than half a minute's gain? With Wars stardrive speeds, a 6 parsec reduction in travel distance is a 'why bother', especially if it involves seriously endangering your ship.
And now you know why everybody hates that piece of EU garbage.