Could the UFP have a Jedi Order?

[FaxModem1]

If the Force existed in the Trek galaxy, and somehow a Jedi Order was created in what would become UFP territory, would the UFP be similar to the Republic in having the Jedi Order exist? Also, would the UFP integrate the Jedi Order into their federal government in the same way that the Republic did? Would this be a good thing?

Or, would events and circumstances be too different for there to be a Jedi Order to be created in the Star Trek galaxy? If that's so, why?

[Darth Tanner]

Why would they form a Jedi Order? There are already species in Star Trek with Jedi like powers and they don't seem to form special religious conclaves for them, they just go about their lives as usual, telepaths and Vulcans for instance, although they don't seem to use them as well as they logically would, ie a telepaths used for negotiations.

[Lord Revan]

Why would they form a Jedi Order? There are already species in Star Trek with Jedi like powers and they don't seem to form special religious conclaves for them, they just go about their lives as usual, telepaths and Vulcans for instance, although they don't seem to use them as well as they logically would, ie a telepaths used for negotiations.

while nothing has ever been stated in canon I suspect there's treaties that limit how much you can use telepaths in negotiations and similar events.

[biostem]

Why would they form a Jedi Order? There are already species in Star Trek with Jedi like powers and they don't seem to form special religious conclaves for them, they just go about their lives as usual, telepaths and Vulcans for instance, although they don't seem to use them as well as they logically would, ie a telepaths used for negotiations.

while nothing has ever been stated in canon I suspect there's treaties that limit how much you can use telepaths in negotiations and similar events.

There was that episode of TNG where various factions were vying for control of a wormhole, and events transpired where one of the negotiators turned out to be part Betazoid, and since he didn't disclose that, it kind of soiled things. My take-away from this is that a telepathic race is at least expected to disclose as much. As for Vulcans, it seems their telepathy is only touch-ranged. At the same time, Picard would routinely have Troi on the bridge, and not disclose her abilities to non-Federation vessels they encountered, so maybe the expectation of disclosure is only when all parties are allies.

The last point I want to bring up is that, at least in interactions between Troi and her mother, it seems that the use of one's abilities is expected to be taught within the family structure, (at least in Betazoids). I also vaguely recall that somehow Troi was able to telepathically communicate with Riker to a limited degree, though perhaps that was because they were dating/intimate for a while, and such a connection requires a close relationship like that.

[Lord Revan]

Why would they form a Jedi Order? There are already species in Star Trek with Jedi like powers and they don't seem to form special religious conclaves for them, they just go about their lives as usual, telepaths and Vulcans for instance, although they don't seem to use them as well as they logically would, ie a telepaths used for negotiations.

while nothing has ever been stated in canon I suspect there's treaties that limit how much you can use telepaths in negotiations and similar events.

There was that episode of TNG where various factions were vying for control of a wormhole, and events transpired where one of the negotiators turned out to be part Betazoid, and since he didn't disclose that, it kind of soiled things. My take-away from this is that a telepathic race is at least expected to disclose as much. As for Vulcans, it seems their telepathy is only touch-ranged. At the same time, Picard would routinely have Troi on the bridge, and not disclose her abilities to non-Federation vessels they encountered, so maybe the expectation of disclosure is only when all parties are allies.

The last point I want to bring up is that, at least in interactions between Troi and her mother, it seems that the use of one's abilities is expected to be taught within the family structure, (at least in Betazoids). I also vaguely recall that somehow Troi was able to telepathically communicate with Riker to a limited degree, though perhaps that was because they were dating/intimate for a while, and such a connection requires a close relationship like that.

I suspect there's a difference between formal treaty that could have lasting effects on the quadrant like wormhole negotiations, I mean how would you think someone like the Klingons would react if they found out the there was a telepath on the conference that a major treaty was made and they weren't told about it.

Basically with formal treaties you'd want to make that everyone who signed the treaty feels like they did so out of their free will, sure the political situation might force that to be only option but you don't want them to feel that got "cheated" into signing

[The Romulan Republic]

If the Force existed in the Trek galaxy, and somehow a Jedi Order was created in what would become UFP territory, would the UFP be similar to the Republic in having the Jedi Order exist? Also, would the UFP integrate the Jedi Order into their federal government in the same way that the Republic did? Would this be a good thing?

Or, would events and circumstances be too different for there to be a Jedi Order to be created in the Star Trek galaxy? If that's so, why?

I suppose if someone wanted to have their own religious sect of Force users, the Federation probably wouldn't object as long as they followed Federation law (they didn't stop Chakotay from practicing his beliefs, nor did they crack down on alien psychics like the Vulcans and Troi).

As to the Federation state creating such an order or incorporating it into the government, I feel like they'd just integrate it into Starfleet like they do existing psychics (including Vulcans and Troi).

I think it could be a useful asset as long as it was regulated to keep it from abusing its power. Fortunately, the Federation has a long history of dealing with psychic beings. Honestly, I think the Jedi would just be one more group of psychics found in space. More powerful than some, perhaps, but not exactly outside the Federation's ability to comprehend or deal with.

Edit: To clarify, I'm skeptical that the Federation would make a separate order instead of just recruiting Force users into Starfleet.

[The Romulan Republic]

Of course, there's the added complication that a Force user who begins to use the Dark Side can become corrupted and that Force powers must be taught rather than just being innate, so simply recruiting Force users wouldn't work. Their would need to be some sort of training in their abilities.

[Khaat]

Just in TNG, we've seen a number of potentially game-changing races ignored: Vulcans ("Sarek"), Betazoids (telepaths), Ullians ("Violations"), even the Traveller (acted as a lens to desires!). Any one of these could (should have?) easily destabilize the Federation just by accident.

A cult of super-soldiers (physical feats impossible to "normal humans"!) with some telepathy and precognition aren't that far removed from the races already out there, the largest difference being they could come from any race (that has Force-sensitive potential). An independent cult training them to be "guardians of peace and justice" would be stepping on toes: the Federation has Starfleet to impose its morals, thankyouverymuch!

In theory, Jedi operate outside of the Galactic Republic chain of command, so they may want the same from the Federation (or Klingon Empire, Romulan Republic, etc.) Great potential for "diplomatic conflict".

[Lord Revan]

it was strongly implied in TPM that the Supreme Chancellor Valorum (or how you spelled his name again) was kind of acting outside of his authority when sent Quinn-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi to Naboo at the start, this implies that there's some rules or traditions as to how the Jedi Order can act and it's not a total wild card.

We should also understand that the Jedi Order is not a military organization but a civilian one they have no inherent military hardware apart form fighters, the Grand Army of the Republic (AKA the Clone Army) and its fleets are Republic Military and are loyal to the Jedi only in their role as servants of the Republic.

[applejack]

As for Vulcans, it seems their telepathy is only touch-ranged.

In the Voyager episode "Random Thoughts" Tuvok talks to the Mari investigator fully telepathically. And in the TNG episode "Sarek," Sarek's Bendii Syndrome breaks down his emotional control and he broadcasts his emotions all over the Enterprise leading to multiple incidents of physical altercations.

[Lord Revan]

As for Vulcans, it seems their telepathy is only touch-ranged.

In the Voyager episode "Random Thoughts" Tuvok talks to the Mari investigator fully telepathically. And in the TNG episode "Sarek," Sarek's Bendii Syndrome breaks down his emotional control and he broadcasts his emotions all over the Enterprise leading to multiple incidents of physical altercations.

tbh Vulcan telepathic powers are depicted very inconsistently during the run of trek sometimes having a range of several lightyears (when Spock sensed the death of ship with all Vulcan crew) and other times being strickly touch only.

Though as a rule of thumb Vulcans can do any major mind powers only if they've touched the person to make a telepatic link with them.

[applejack]

tbh Vulcan telepathic powers are depicted very inconsistently during the run of trek sometimes having a range of several lightyears (when Spock sensed the death of ship with all Vulcan crew) and other times being strickly touch only.

For the sake of reference, I just Googled the incident and it's from the TOS episode "The Imunity Syndrome"

Though as a rule of thumb Vulcans can do any major mind powers only if they've touched the person to make a telepatic link with them.

Well, affecting the emotions and subsequent behavior of a bunch of people on a GCS seems kind of major. Not to mention the multiple light years range of the TOS example... Although, I think you mean that Vulcans can usually only do deep and sophisticated telepathy through physical contact. I've never heard an out-right reason stated for the reason why we don't see more examples of non-touch telepathy from Vulcans. Ethical/cultural conventions perhaps? I think in the Voyager episode, Tuvok tells the Mari investigator that he simply doesn't have the opportunity or reason to use that kind of telepathy on Voyager. But even in Vulcan-only scenes like in the 2009 Trek movie, communication is still verbal. And I didn't care to see much of ST:ENT, so I really couldn't say what explanations they had there.

[Adam Reynolds]

The fundamental problem for Jedi in the ST setting is that their galaxy is much more mutlipolar. SW in the era of the Old Republic was unipolar around the Republic, allowing the Jedi to recruit virtually all potential sources within the galaxy. This allowed a single order to florish. Assuming Force sensitivity is similar in the ST galaxy, then it should be prevalent among the major races of the galaxy in equal quantities. Thus instead of a single Jedi Order we would see several rival Orders, several somewhat likely to use the Dark Side(Romulans would be the Palpatine style underhanded while Klingons would be the bloodlust Maul style).

[Elheru Aran]

In at least one ST novel (non canon I know) Troi says outright that you're not allowed to bring Betazoids to... damned if I can remember what it was, negotiations or a conference or something without notifying the other attendees, which would line up with the incident in TNG where a half-Betazoid causes a bit of a stir. It would be reasonable to assume that there are at least some more or less universally accepted conventions in the Trek universe regarding telepaths, if not beings with other psionic abilities, since there are a number of alien races with telepathic abilities out there.

As far as that goes, a Jedi Order in Trek could well be an independent organization helping regulate the use of telepaths... really I don't see much reason why it would differ significantly from the one in Wars, except perhaps being less involved in warfare and the like.

[Lord Revan]

In at least one ST novel (non canon I know) Troi says outright that you're not allowed to bring Betazoids to... damned if I can remember what it was, negotiations or a conference or something without notifying the other attendees, which would line up with the incident in TNG where a half-Betazoid causes a bit of a stir. It would be reasonable to assume that there are at least some more or less universally accepted conventions in the Trek universe regarding telepaths, if not beings with other psionic abilities, since there are a number of alien races with telepathic abilities out there.

It's one of those things that you don't really have to explitly say just implying will do the job as it makes perfect sense to have treaty like that as I stated previously i don't want people suspecting that they signed a treaty only because a telepath was messing with their mind even if it wasn't the case the dout about it is enough.

[Adam Reynolds]

As far as that goes, a Jedi Order in Trek could well be an independent organization helping regulate the use of telepaths... really I don't see much reason why it would differ significantly from the one in Wars, except perhaps being less involved in warfare and the like.

Jedi in the Old Republic didn't operate outside the Republic, hence the reason they never recruited Anakin. I see no reason why Jedi would be more independent in Star Trek than they were in Star Wars. Thus it would make sense that different factions in ST would each have their own version of the Jedi Order.

One interesting idea I was thinking of with Star Trek is that it might be possible for a Force sensitive to detect the frequency switching in ST shields and shoot right through them. It would in some respects be no different than dodging blaster fire, though perhaps the lack of danger would make it more difficult. It would certainly make fighters more effective.

[Lord Revan]

As far as that goes, a Jedi Order in Trek could well be an independent organization helping regulate the use of telepaths... really I don't see much reason why it would differ significantly from the one in Wars, except perhaps being less involved in warfare and the like.

Jedi in the Old Republic didn't operate outside the Republic, hence the reason they never recruited Anakin. I see no reason why Jedi would be more independent in Star Trek than they were in Star Wars. Thus it would make sense that different factions in ST would each have their own version of the Jedi Order.

One interesting idea I was thinking of with Star Trek is that it might be possible for a Force sensitive to detect the frequency switching in ST shields and shoot right through them. It would in some respects be no different than dodging blaster fire, though perhaps the lack of danger would make it more difficult. It would certainly make fighters more effective.

I don't think we've ever seen a Jedi detecting something like that. At least not in anyway that would allow them to bypass shields or similar systems.