Trek Allies

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2002-09-10 11:34pm

Just a question, but lets use Mr. Wong's rpg as an example. Why doesn't the UFP give planets (i.e. the neutral zone, and other colonies) to the Klingons, Romulans, and anyone else on the condition that they help them squash this new "borg-like" (lying is no problem) threat. This would help the UFP to even out the numbers, and maybe work out a way to win a few victorys against the Empire.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-10 11:38pm

I'd hardly think giving away planets is that simple, look at the mess an exchange of planets with the Cardies caused.
And would the other powers really be so careless as to accept a bribe of one or two spare planets to declare war against a powerful force?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-10 11:54pm

I don't think that, even with the other races of the AQ as Allies, the UFP could win any significant battles against the Empire, anyway. Also, it would be extraordinary to believe that planets could easily and quickly change hands, or that the UFP's allies would come to aid them for such a paltry sum as some more or less worthless border worlds.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2002-09-11 08:15am

If the borg were next door, and the UFP was in their way towards the Rommies and Klingons what do you think would happen. The Romulans and Klingons would probably come rushing over to help the UFP but not send all their forces. Now if the UFP just gave them planets to send more forces to come kill the borg what would be wrong with that?? And although I don't think they could win, you could at least destroy, or board, a light cap ship maybe (with 300+ ships) even a VSD, but still it could help raise military morale.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-11 08:52am

Straha wrote:If the borg were next door, and the UFP was in their way towards the Rommies and Klingons what do you think would happen. The Romulans and Klingons would probably come rushing over to help the UFP but not send all their forces. Now if the UFP just gave them planets to send more forces to come kill the borg what would be wrong with that?? And although I don't think they could win, you could at least destroy, or board, a light cap ship maybe (with 300+ ships) even a VSD, but still it could help raise military morale.

I say again, giving away planets is not that easy, for one thing the populations would object, and no doubt the Klingons and Romulans would see it as a sign of weakness and demand more, too much more.
Also, Klingons have helped against the Borg (we really don't know if the Romulans would, but let's just say they would) but the Borg are totally obvious, they charge in and attack, whereas the Empire might employ deceit and propaganda, the Feddie's word alone really doesn't mean much to the other powers.

And although I don't think they could win, you could at least destroy, or board, a light cap ship maybe (with 300+ ships) even a VSD, but still it could help raise military morale.

Managing to board a VSD (assuming the Captain doesn't just scuttle it) would be a rather pale morale boost in light of the Death Star blowing up their core worlds and whatnot..

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-11 10:45am

Capturing a VSD a moral boost???
"Soldiers and officers, with the united power of two 300 ship fleets consisting of our most advanced warships, we managed, despite taking horrible losses, to capture one light destroyer of the enemy."
Yeah WHAT a moral boost.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-09-11 10:58am

How do you board a VSD with a good chance of winning. First you have to bring down its shields and by then, the 300 ship fleet will have some significant losses. Then you have to deal with "crack" Federation troops beaming into a ship with Storm troopers and crewmen that know how to fight and won't just duck down behind a box or crate, fire, duck back again, rinse and repeat.

By the time they take the VSD, an EXTREMELY unklikely feat, you would have lost a good portion of your 300 ship fleet and MANY security personnel. For what? A ship you wouldn't even understand how to fly or pilot? How long before Imp reinforcements arrive, remember this isn't warp drive where the nearest help is DAYS away, a VSD could call for help and get a SD jumping in a matter of minutes or an hour. All the VSD captain has to do is hold out.

Risking 300 ships to take an outdated warship that still can hand you your ass, is NOT a reasonable use of military resources. Boarding actions against Imperial ships are just not going to happen, how many boarding actions have we ever seen on Trek at all?? If they don't regularly board in Trek against vessels that are far more evenly matched, how do you propose they will board against a ship that has HUNDREDS of troops on board??

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-11 11:02am

Stravo wrote:How do you board a VSD with a good chance of winning. First you have to bring down its shields and by then, the 300 ship fleet will have some significant losses.

Well the problem is the VSD will most likely kill all 300 ships before they can bring it's shields down, except for if they start ramming at once.
With the VSD and Kirk however, they have a good chance of withdrawing the Empire.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2002-09-11 11:02am

Stravo wrote:
Risking 300 ships to take an outdated warship that still can hand you your ass, is NOT a reasonable use of military resources. Boarding actions against Imperial ships are just not going to happen, how many boarding actions have we ever seen on Trek at all?? If they don't regularly board in Trek against vessels that are far more evenly matched, how do you propose they will board against a ship that has HUNDREDS of troops on board??

Actually, a few thousand, plus the crewers would be given access to the armoury if need be.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-11 11:06am

If this is a Klingon/Fed alliance we're talking about, they wouldn't even be boarded by Redshirts.
But by Klingons. With Bat'Leths.

*attempts to resist urge to burst out laughing*

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2002-09-11 11:09am

Evil Jerk wrote:If this is a Klingon/Fed alliance we're talking about, they wouldn't even be boarded by Redshirts.
But by Klingons. With Bat'Leths.

*attempts to resist urge to burst out laughing*

A vision of Klingons running repeatedly into a blastdoor has just appeared before me.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-11 11:25am

Don't forget the standing orders
You don't let your ship fall into enemy hands

Or

KABOOM!

And the empire picks captians who will do that don't think otherwise

Failed Glory · Post by **Failed Glory** » 2002-09-11 01:11pm

Well, a colaboration between the Klingons, Romulans, and Feds would amount to a grand fleet. So many good, warm feelings of alliance.

All it amounts to is that many more targets to slag.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2002-09-11 11:40pm

Straha wrote:If the borg were next door, and the UFP was in their way towards the Rommies and Klingons what do you think would happen. The Romulans and Klingons would probably come rushing over to help the UFP but not send all their forces. Now if the UFP just gave them planets to send more forces to come kill the borg what would be wrong with that?? And although I don't think they could win, you could at least destroy, or board, a light cap ship maybe (with 300+ ships) even a VSD, but still it could help raise military morale.

More likely the Romulans would try to handle the problem on their own and, when that failed, retreat to their own territory and try to stay out of it, allying only when they were under attack themselves. That's exactly what they did in the Dominion War, and the Dominion didn't have them nearly as overmatched as the Empire.

And as others have noted, I don't think that the Federation can just hand over planets like you're suggesting. What if the people on those planets don't want to suddenly become Romulan citizens? What will people on other Federation worlds do when they find out that the Federation is willing to handover planets without consulting the residents when there's a threat to the central government? What you're suggesting is politically impossible.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-11 11:42pm

You are incorrect about their response to the Borg. The Federation called for Klingon assistance in its defense of Earth, and "Even thought about" calling up the Romulans for aid, but they did not. This is indicative both of Federation unwillingness to turn to the Romulans, and to Romulan unwillingness to aid in what they see as an external problem.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-09-11 11:56pm

My understanding is that the Rommies will only aid a situation when they will benefit from it.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-12 11:39am

EmperorMing wrote:My understanding is that the Rommies will only aid a situation when they will benefit from it.

Yes, and a few paltry border worlds wouldn't sway them, or the Feds wouldn't have had so much trouble getting them into the Dominion War.