The end of ST vs SW debate is near

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-06-15 09:49pm

StimNeuro wrote:
Darth Yoshi wrote:
YT300000 wrote:Not only inflation, but ticket prices. I read somewhere that if you calculate the difference in prices today, and in 1977, ANH is still the highest grossing film in existence.
In the US, anyway, Gone With the Wind with the highest grossing film in history when inflation is factored in. And I believe that ticket price changes fall under the inflation category.
Do the ANH/ESB/ROTJ figures also include the ticket sales from the SE versions, or are they just the original sales?

Yes. The numbers include classic and SE viewings.

CNS Sarajevo · Post by **CNS Sarajevo** » 2003-06-15 10:23pm

Someone probably said the same thing about Flash Gordon. It took a while, but George Lucas came along and made Star Wars.

Will they "die"? No more than Flash Gordon has. They'll always be part of our cultural landscape.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-06-16 12:17am

evilcat4000 wrote:With the end of the crap that was Voyger the TNG era Star Trek franchise has ended. Enterprise being highly unpopular would eventualy meet the same fate. And so there will come a day when there are no more Star Trek.

Star Wars too will end with the release of episode3 in 2005. It is already dying considering the poor performence of recent movies and the increasing lack of public interest. Clearly both the Star Trek and Star Wars franchises are dying. They had their time of glory and now is the time for them to go.

Soon there will be neither Star Wars nor Star Trek. We will be watching horrible reality shows and the matrix sequels for entertainment. The public taste has changed over the years. They no longer prefer space combat science fiction like they once did. And so I fear that the debators at SD.net would eventualy run out material and this great debate would finaly end.

sw didnt have a new movie for 2 decades. its one of the cornerstones of scifi.

hell, you can hear its spoofs in almost every modern show you see.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-06-16 09:28am

CNS Sarajevo wrote:Will they "die"? No more than Flash Gordon has. They'll always be part of our cultural landscape.

Remember - Dino DeLaurentiis made a new Flash Gordon movie in 1980.... I don't know how well it did, but can we resurrect Flash Gordon a THIRD time??

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-06-16 10:00am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
CNS Sarajevo wrote:Will they "die"? No more than Flash Gordon has. They'll always be part of our cultural landscape.
Remember - Dino DeLaurentiis made a new Flash Gordon movie in 1980.... I don't know how well it did, but can we resurrect Flash Gordon a THIRD time??

are you refering to that wannabe rock-opera nonsense with a Queen soundtrack? ack!

GeeYouEye · Post by **GeeYouEye** » 2003-06-16 04:17pm

Tribun wrote:Star Wars survived a 16-years gab between the movies, so we don't have to fear, that it will die. It became so big, that it is now INDEPENDENT from more movies. Sure, there is one left, but after that, it won't die.

Trek had the same effect after the end of TOS. It survived 12 years of no new material, before the movies started.
But Trek made a mistake. Now, Trek fans wanted to be fed with new episodes continously, while SW always made clear, that there will be 6 Films an no more.

Eh, not really. I'd put it at 6 years for Star Wars (IIRC, Heir to the Empire was published in '89. Correct me if I'm wrong though. Oh, and I think there was some Ewok cartoon in the mid-80's.), and 3 years for Star Trek (TAS).

Oh, and George Lucas never (to my knowledge) completely ruled out a third trilogy (7, 8, and 9).

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-06-16 07:00pm

GeeYouEye wrote:
Tribun wrote:Star Wars survived a 16-years gab between the movies, so we don't have to fear, that it will die. It became so big, that it is now INDEPENDENT from more movies. Sure, there is one left, but after that, it won't die.

Trek had the same effect after the end of TOS. It survived 12 years of no new material, before the movies started.
But Trek made a mistake. Now, Trek fans wanted to be fed with new episodes continously, while SW always made clear, that there will be 6 Films an no more.
Eh, not really. I'd put it at 6 years for Star Wars (IIRC, Heir to the Empire was published in '89. Correct me if I'm wrong though. Oh, and I think there was some Ewok cartoon in the mid-80's.), and 3 years for Star Trek (TAS).

Oh, and George Lucas never (to my knowledge) completely ruled out a third trilogy (7, 8, and 9).

A few years ago, he wasn't sure. Now George says there will be no other movies.

CNS Sarajevo · Post by **CNS Sarajevo** » 2003-06-16 10:20pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
CNS Sarajevo wrote:Will they "die"? No more than Flash Gordon has. They'll always be part of our cultural landscape.
Remember - Dino DeLaurentiis made a new Flash Gordon movie in 1980.... I don't know how well it did, but can we resurrect Flash Gordon a THIRD time??

LOL not really my point -- though there were some cool Flash Gordon cartoons in the 80's, too. I was thinking about the poster's prophecy of doom in the last paragraph, where we're stuck with reality shows and SW/ST and heroic science fiction just die. I don't think it'll happen. Even if it isn't Star Wars or Star Trek, we'll see heroic SF again.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-06-16 10:49pm

A franchise or series doesn't always need something new to be made (have "new life breathed into it") to survive over the years. Look at all of the old space opera and sci-fi serials that were made in the 30s and 40s. While quite a few of them haven't been seen in the mainstream limelight for decades, they've been supported by their devotees and fans to this day.

As long as people continue to support something, it continues to exist. Some things might fade in and out of major popularity from time to time, but they'll roll on.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-06-16 11:55pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:
CNS Sarajevo wrote:Will they "die"? No more than Flash Gordon has. They'll always be part of our cultural landscape.
Remember - Dino DeLaurentiis made a new Flash Gordon movie in 1980.... I don't know how well it did, but can we resurrect Flash Gordon a THIRD time??
are you refering to that wannabe rock-opera nonsense with a Queen soundtrack? ack!

Flash! Ah-ahhhh!! hm.h.m.... dum dum UNIVERSE!

Coruscant_Dweller · Post by **Coruscant_Dweller** » 2003-06-17 12:16am

Here are the US box office numbers for the Star Wars Films, in millions, adjusted to 2002 dollars, as well as their overall ranks among the top grossing films. I have taken these from the-movie-times.com, but have not verified the accuracy of their calculations. They did not provide adjusted worldwide numbers.

Film------------------------------Box Office----Rank

A New Hope_______________1,026.7____2

The Empire Strikes Back_______555.7___14

Return of the Jedi____________533.2___15

The Phantom Menace_________484.5___20

Attack of the Clones__________310.7___63

(Yes, this formatting looks retarded - bear with me)

However, these numbers understate the real power of the Star Wars franchise, since they do not include merchandising, books, games etc. Few of the films in the top 100 have resulted in anything comparable.

Personally, I think the nadir of Star Wars as a cultural phenomenon, even among fans, was about 10 years ago. Things today are a lot more lively, and as long as there are both Wars and Trek fans, I expect the battles to go on.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-06-17 06:28am

In 20-30 years, there will be new Star Wars movies made. They might not be made with the approval of George Lucas, but they will be made. Never underestimate the power of the two-decade nostalgia cycle.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-06-17 09:25am

Drooling Iguana wrote:In 20-30 years, there will be new Star Wars movies made. They might not be made with the approval of George Lucas, but they will be made. Never underestimate the power of the two-decade nostalgia cycle.

But if they're made without Lucas' approval - wouldn't they then be little more than glorified fan films?

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2003-06-17 09:40am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote:In 20-30 years, there will be new Star Wars movies made. They might not be made with the approval of George Lucas, but they will be made. Never underestimate the power of the two-decade nostalgia cycle.
But if they're made without Lucas' approval - wouldn't they then be little more than glorified fan films?

Not if they're made with the approval of the Lucas estate. Without that approval they would definitely be no more than unauthorized fan productions.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-06-17 11:07am

Patrick Ogaard wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote:In 20-30 years, there will be new Star Wars movies made. They might not be made with the approval of George Lucas, but they will be made. Never underestimate the power of the two-decade nostalgia cycle.
But if they're made without Lucas' approval - wouldn't they then be little more than glorified fan films?
Not if they're made with the approval of the Lucas estate. Without that approval they would definitely be no more than unauthorized fan productions.

This raises the question: Which requirements would The Lucas Estate set, aside from consistency with the films???

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-06-17 11:13am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:This raises the question: Which requirements would The Lucas Estate set, aside from consistency with the films???

Probably Lucas or one his heir's approval.

Seriously he's trying to insure that it will always be in his hands.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-06-17 12:09pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote: Remember - Dino DeLaurentiis made a new Flash Gordon movie in 1980.... I don't know how well it did, but can we resurrect Flash Gordon a THIRD time??
are you refering to that wannabe rock-opera nonsense with a Queen soundtrack? ack!
Flash! Ah-ahhhh!! hm.h.m.... dum dum UNIVERSE!

LMAO!

What do you MEAAAAN, Flash Gordon approaching? OPEN FIRE! All Weapons!

....dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum FLASH! AH-ahhhh! He's a miracle!

Coruscant_Dweller · Post by **Coruscant_Dweller** » 2003-06-17 07:20pm

I take PERRRSONAL responsibility... in the EMPERORS name!!!!!

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-06-18 08:39pm

Does anybody here realize that they will be making SW sequals? I remember seeing GL being interviewed by Robert Malton and he said that there would eventually be sequals. ST won't die. There are too many fans of TOS and TNG to let that happen and there will eventually be new producers to revitalize the shows. No studio is dumb enough to let 2 of the top grossing sci-fi franchise go under any time soon, though they may be forced under for a while like Sw in the early ninties and ST in the early seventies.

thecreech · Post by **thecreech** » 2003-06-18 09:05pm

When GL dies someone will take over... I'm sure we will have sequels one way or the other

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-06-20 12:49pm

Slartibartfast wrote:Flash! Ah-ahhhh!! hm.h.m.... dum dum UNIVERSE!

He'll save...every one of us!

I doubt that SW will die off, with all the merchandising and whatnot. Whether or not the quality will drop is another story, though.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2003-06-20 02:49pm

Darth Yoshi wrote: I doubt that SW will die off, with all the merchandising and whatnot. Whether or not the quality will drop is another story, though.

::::::: Thinks about what would happen if B&B got control of SW:::::::

Excuse me, i have to go jump off a bridge........

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-06-20 03:09pm

Darksider wrote:
Darth Yoshi wrote: I doubt that SW will die off, with all the merchandising and whatnot. Whether or not the quality will drop is another story, though.
::::::: Thinks about what would happen if B&B got control of SW:::::::

Excuse me, i have to go jump off a bridge........

AH!! MY POOR MIND!!

thecreech · Post by **thecreech** » 2003-06-20 03:16pm

Darksider wrote:
Darth Yoshi wrote: I doubt that SW will die off, with all the merchandising and whatnot. Whether or not the quality will drop is another story, though.
::::::: Thinks about what would happen if B&B got control of SW:::::::

Excuse me, i have to go jump off a bridge........

Dude... don't even joke about that. My heart stopped for a second there

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-06-20 03:25pm

Darksider wrote:
Darth Yoshi wrote: I doubt that SW will die off, with all the merchandising and whatnot. Whether or not the quality will drop is another story, though.
::::::: Thinks about what would happen if B&B got control of SW:::::::

Excuse me, i have to go jump off a bridge........

Wow, that's like chatting up a real nice lady and then burping in her face, whacking her over the head with a bar stool and setting her alight with a lighter and some absinthe.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The end of ST vs SW debate is near

Is the ST and SW franchise dying ?

Re: The end of ST vs SW debate is near

Box Office Numbers

Old, mulleted rock operas