The history of Hyperspeed...

[Slowhand]

Fellow fanatics,

First, I'm new around here so please forgive my ignorance if this has already been covered elsewhere in the wealth of knowledge and speculation that this website boasts. Secondly, I'm not sure what constitutes flaming around here given the fact that a great deal of otherwise non-aggressive posting dashed liberally with "more colourful metaphors" as Mr. Spock might be inclined to say. I would trust that this post would be misconstrued as a slight on Star trek or Star Wars.

That being said, I was wondering about the engines that were in common use in the SW universe before the advent of hyperdrive. I haven't read anything from the Extended Universe and my knowledge of SW that is not covered in the movies comes basically from well put together websites. Clearly hyperdrive is vastly superior in speed compared to warp drive but did Han Solo's ancestors ever have to make do with something comparable to warp?

Maybe there are still primitive FTL engines still in use on SW ships because it's implied in a lot of the fanfic here that Imperial ships CAN limit their speed as to fly FTL in formation with ships of the ST universe.

If there was a lesser form of superluminal drive even longer ago in that galaxt far, far away, then might it also be implied that the Federation, should it survive for 1000 millenia, might one day discover the "hyperdrive". Considering that the species with the most direct influence over each universe is human, and given the fact that the Enterprise benefits from 200 years of FTL technology verses 10000 years for the Falcon, it seems reasonable to me that Star Trek 12000AD should feature ships that traverse the galaxy in days instead of years.

The very fact that SW has a 10000 year head start is the very reason I try my damnest to stay out of heated debate as to whether Star Trek could win. In one galaxy, a private individual named Han Solo owns the fastest ship ever while in the other the government ferries it's citizens around in Danube class runabouts all according to a strict schedule.

If anyone knows of a good URL for the history of Star Wars, with the exception of Force.net, feel free to add it in a reply.

How long will I have to wear this red shirt?

Until you reach 50 posts, don't write the titles in all caps and PLEASE, please read the announcements~Olrik

[StarshipTitanic]

Hello!

I'm not too sure myself on how FTL travel was done before hyperdrive, if at all. They would have likely utilized sleeper ships. I believe that the origin of hyperdrive has been lost to the eons and it has simply been improved upon for thousands upon thousands of years.

As for the Federation discovering it, virtually impossible. We sort of know that the time-traveling 29th Century Feds control most of their galaxy and still use some sort of warp. Not to mention that FTL travel for different universes tend to be their only method of FTL travel. For debating purposes, it is assumed that universes may use their native FTL travel in the opposite universes.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Fellow fanatics

Wonderful way to introduce yourself dipshit.


*mean poke*

[Anarchist Bunny]

Fellow fanatics

Wonderful way to introduce yourself dipshit.


*mean poke*

Ah fuck, I misread that, I thought it said hello, and that you were refering to us as fanatics, I appologise. It's late.

[Howedar]

As for the Federation discovering it, virtually impossible.

A foolish assumption. If it is possible and discoverable, then they would most likely find it given enough time.

We sort of know that the time-traveling 29th Century Feds control most of their galaxy and still use some sort of warp.

This is still only 900 years of spaceflight, a far cry from SW. For that matter, do we even know how fast their warp travel is? It could be "warp" in name only, rather like the Turbolaser.

Not to mention that FTL travel for different universes tend to be their only method of FTL travel.

Suspending disbelief, if we allow SW FTL in the ST universe, then it is not the only method of FTL travel.

[Mad]

That being said, I was wondering about the engines that were in common use in the SW universe before the advent of hyperdrive. I haven't read anything from the Extended Universe and my knowledge of SW that is not covered in the movies comes basically from well put together websites. Clearly hyperdrive is vastly superior in speed compared to warp drive but did Han Solo's ancestors ever have to make do with something comparable to warp?

To my knowledge, there is very little data on what kind of FTL technology used before hyperdrive, if any. Hyperdrive has been around longer than most history that has been found, so, as has been mentioned, its origins has been lost. That means anything before it has likely been lost, as well.

It may be that hyperdrive was the first FTL method developed by SW. Naturally, early hyperdrives would have been much slower than modern drives.

Maybe there are still primitive FTL engines still in use on SW ships because it's implied in a lot of the fanfic here that Imperial ships CAN limit their speed as to fly FTL in formation with ships of the ST universe.

Perhaps, but that could be more to do with to the fanfic author making stuff up for the sake of a better story. Fanfic has more freedom with what it can do with evidence and lack of evidence than debates do. (A fanfic can make something up as long as it sounds plausable, while a debate would require proof.)

If there was a lesser form of superluminal drive even longer ago in that galaxt far, far away, then might it also be implied that the Federation, should it survive for 1000 millenia, might one day discover the "hyperdrive". Considering that the species with the most direct influence over each universe is human, and given the fact that the Enterprise benefits from 200 years of FTL technology verses 10000 years for the Falcon, it seems reasonable to me that Star Trek 12000AD should feature ships that traverse the galaxy in days instead of years.

Perhaps. Or, alternatively, they could refine warp or transwarp technology to be just as fast, while working out certain kinks in it. Or they may not. It's tough to tell because there is no evidence for what happens 10,000 years after the 24th Century in ST.

Time isn't the only indication of technological development. Some cultures develop technology at a much faster rate than others. If I'm not mistaken, the Federation has some of the most powerful warships in the Alpha Quadrant, meaning that cultures that have been spacefaring for much longer, like the Klingons, have weaker ships.

[StarshipTitanic]

A foolish assumption. If it is possible and discoverable, then they would most likely find it given enough time.

And you're assuming that Star Trek and Star Wars exist in the same universe.

This is still only 900 years of spaceflight, a far cry from SW. For that matter, do we even know how fast their warp travel is? It could be "warp" in name only, rather like the Turbolaser.

Fast enough to control a galaxy with. Anyway, the SW civilization didn't discover hyperdrive, it was given to them.

Suspending disbelief, if we allow SW FTL in the ST universe, then it is not the only method of FTL travel.

For the purposes of debates only. To just assume that all FTL systems are possible everywhere is silly (The First Ones of B5 have had billions of years to discover other methods and all they figured out is how to make a pocket in hyperspace or phase into it.).

[StarshipTitanic]

Time isn't the only indication of technological development. Some cultures develop technology at a much faster rate than others. If I'm not mistaken, the Federation has some of the most powerful warships in the Alpha Quadrant, meaning that cultures that have been spacefaring for much longer, like the Klingons, have weaker ships.

That's more of a different design philosophy. The Klingons use cloaking and smaller designs of potent ships to swarm the enemy while the Federation relies on a few powerful designs and apparently hordes of their obsolete vessels.

[Drooling Iguana]

As for the Federation discovering it, virtually impossible. We sort of know that the time-traveling 29th Century Feds control most of their galaxy and still use some sort of warp. Not to mention that FTL travel for different universes tend to be their only method of FTL travel. For debating purposes, it is assumed that universes may use their native FTL travel in the opposite universes.

In canon Star Trek, there's already several forms of FTL travel. They've got Warp, Transwarp and Quantum Slipstream, just to name three off the top of my head, plus whatever mechanisms the God-like beings like Q, the Traveller and the Caretaker use to move ships over long distances. (Not that I'm implying that these God-like beings actually use a machine to move ships over long distances, that's a debate for another thread, but even if their powers are innate, they still need a mechanism in order to accomplish anything.)

[YT300000]

Before there was hyperspace travel in Star Wars (before 25 000 BBY), they had technology comparable to warp, just much, much faster. Xim the Despot controlled vast amounts of space, as did the Hutts and other small empires.

Someone did a bunch of calcs, and figured out that before hyperspace travel, it would take about a decade to cross the galaxy.

[Xg74]

Fellow fanatics

Wonderful way to introduce yourself dipshit.


*mean poke*

Just so you know, fan is derived from the word fanatic. So if you are a fan, you are in fact a fanatic. I know you misred, but I thought I would let you know anyhow.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

Anyway, the SW civilization didn't discover hyperdrive, it was given to them.

Whaa?? That's a new one! Who gave hyperdrive to the SW civilization???

[kojikun]

Whaa?? That's a new one! Who gave hyperdrive to the SW civilization???

space aliens visiting corellia.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Whaa?? That's a new one! Who gave hyperdrive to the SW civilization???

space aliens visiting corellia.

I'm pretty sure it was the Duros, who are a species in SW.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Whaa?? That's a new one! Who gave hyperdrive to the SW civilization???

space aliens visiting corellia.

I'm pretty sure it was the Duros, who are a species in SW.

No the Duros were just some of the first aliens to use hyperdrive.

The species that helped the Corellians with hyperdrive is never specified but likely the SW Superrace that built the Corellian System and Centerpoint, and probably the Maw as well.

[Admiral Johnason]

Whaa?? That's a new one! Who gave hyperdrive to the SW civilization???

space aliens visiting corellia.

They actually developed it themselves. They found Corellia the way it was when they got there.

[StarshipTitanic]

As for the Federation discovering it, virtually impossible. We sort of know that the time-traveling 29th Century Feds control most of their galaxy and still use some sort of warp. Not to mention that FTL travel for different universes tend to be their only method of FTL travel. For debating purposes, it is assumed that universes may use their native FTL travel in the opposite universes.

In canon Star Trek, there's already several forms of FTL travel. They've got Warp, Transwarp and Quantum Slipstream, just to name three off the top of my head, plus whatever mechanisms the God-like beings like Q, the Traveller and the Caretaker use to move ships over long distances. (Not that I'm implying that these God-like beings actually use a machine to move ships over long distances, that's a debate for another thread, but even if their powers are innate, they still need a mechanism in order to accomplish anything.)

I thought that warp, transwarp, and quantum slipstream operate on the same idea? I thought these were achieved by modifying the warp drive? I'm not too sure.

[jegs2]

Fellow fanatics,

*SNIP*

Ah, welcome to SD.NET, and those are some good questions. I agree with the assessment that the records were simply lost over thousands of years. Compare the situation to the Asimov Empire, in which humans don't know their ancestrial home -- relegated to legend and myth...



Stand by.....



Stand by for transmission from Coruscant................................
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transmission commensing:



Imperial Intelligence Agency
Imperial Detachment N4318T
Coruscant

MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD
Subject: Welcome


Newbie:

Welcome to StarDestroyer.net. You have volunteered service within the Galactic Empire, and your conduct on this board will be IAW standards set forth by the moderators and owner of said board. Breach of those terms will result in your immediate arrest, interrogation, and subsequent execution. Let me take this opportunity to welcome you to Imperial service.

Serve the Empire!



GREY SIX
SM, IIA
Commanding

[Illuminatus Primus]

Other species recognized humanity as an interstellar civilization for hundred thousand years at least. If not longer.

Seriously, even before hyperdrive Star Wars was far beyond Trek.

[kojikun]

Other species recognized humanity as an interstellar civilization for hundred thousand years at least. If not longer.

Seriously, even before hyperdrive Star Wars was far beyond Trek.

Yeah well, thats not hard to do, as far as scale goes. technology we wont do, but the scale.. forget it, trek will hold no candle to reality of the next 1000 years. seriously, a few thousand colonised or inhabited planets? hahaha we'll have millions by 3000ad, even without FTL.

[Slartibartfast]

There seems to be a lot of lag in Coruscant's transmission thingy.

[Illuminatus Primus]

What?

[Marc Xavier]

Before there was hyperspace travel in Star Wars (before 25 000 BBY), they had technology comparable to warp, just much, much faster. Xim the Despot controlled vast amounts of space, as did the Hutts and other small empires.

I have the SW essential chronology here, and indeed it does mention things about Xim the Despot and his campaigns against the Hutt's empires, but it doesn’t make any direct mention of pre-hyperdrive FTL propulsion--at least that I see. The Galactic Republic only formed after hyperdrive came into "widespread use" so--at least according to this reading--that doesn’t necessitate a "warp-like" pre hyperdrive FTL drive system. Why introduce another system entirely instead of just using the principle of archaic (and slower) hyperdrives?

Can anyone fill me in on details here, please? And additional information on this point would be appreciated.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Can anyone fill me in on details here, please? And additional information on this point would be appreciated.

Hyperdrive was bequeathed to the Corellians, 25,000 years before Yavin. It was only a couple hundred years before the Republic formed. Go to the Resource thread stickied and grab a zip of the TimeTales Chronology. It's a great guide.

Anyway, Xim's Empire was pre-hyperdrive, and even so, the humans were an interstellar civilization for hundreds of thousand of years.

However, it is possible that faster-than-light travel in principle was always using a hyperdrive, however, the aliens gave the humans something that made it a quantum leap ahead, and made THAT the modern hyperdrive that could unite the galaxy. I like this interpretation--as it doesn't require two physics-defying examples of FTL in the same saga.

[Slartibartfast]

What?

Yeah, it took what, 17 days to reach the n00b?