numbers could be low

[Darth Fanboy]

You assume a war all at once without the construction of new shipyards or the "admission" of new systems. Assuming Hyperspeed's superiority to War Drive (duh)

In subduing the Federation it would only take the Death Star, and a support fleet of 100 star destroyer plus smaller support craft to hit Vulcan and Earth simultaneously. That would throw their command structure out the window.

THe Klingons concentrate a huge portion of their population of Kronos over 400 BILLION people. Since their territory is so planet poor, it would take either a BDZ or a Death Star to hit them as well.

If the Nemesis trailer is indicativ eof the ROmulans it might take a little more than that, but assuming the centralization of Alpha Quadrant governments they would capitualte soon after Romulus was gone.

[Darth Fanboy]

(yeah I know this should have been a reply but I goofed, that being said...)

I wonder what the numbers for Planetary defense fleets are, Everytime i've seen ships around Earth or Kronos in peacetime i've seen no more than a couple ships. Bajor never had more than DS9. Why wouldn't major governments protect their planets? Or are the Breen the only ones capable of hitting an enemy homeworld.

If there aren't any ships defending then its possible for a half dozen star destroyers to bomb the snot out of every government centre before heading back to refuel.

[Slartibartfast]

Sorry if I'm not seeing the big picture (because I'm wasted drunk) but is there a point to this post? What's exactly the doubt?

Yes there's usually only like 1 or 2 ships patroling the capitol (?) planet in every Star Trek civilization (read: Feds, Roms, Klings) and every time there's a conflict it looks like a damn fist fight...

Only where there's a larger menace (e: the Borg) they seem to gather their forces together (this usually takes a week or two) and the best they manage is a dozen ships or two. A prerequisite to this is usually that the Borg basically broadcasts their presence saying "I'm going to invade you. Resistance is futile. BTW you have a week or two to gather your troops. Have a nice day."

[Cpt_Frank]

You assume a war all at once without the construction of new shipyards or the "admission" of new systems. Assuming Hyperspeed's superiority to War Drive (duh)

In subduing the Federation it would only take the Death Star, and a support fleet of 100 star destroyer plus smaller support craft to hit Vulcan and Earth simultaneously. That would throw their command structure out the window.

Why 100 ISD and a DS? A force that large will not be necessary. A flotilla out of 10 ISD with the usual escorts and picket ships, and an Allegiance class heavy destroyer as command ship should more than suffice for the Alpha Quad, and probably also the Dominion.
Though you might need more forces to actually garrison the conquered territory.

Split forces and you still can have 5 ISDs hitting Earth and Vulcan while the Allegiance can do whatever she wants to. (killing Voyager or DS 9 for example.)

Only where there's a larger menace (e: the Borg) they seem to gather their forces together (this usually takes a week or two) and the best they manage is a dozen ships or two. A prerequisite to this is usually that the Borg basically broadcasts their presence saying "I'm going to invade you. Resistance is futile. BTW you have a week or two to gather your troops. Have a nice day."

We are Borg. Our shields are at about two gigatons.
You are the Imperials. Your medium guns are at 200 gigatons.
We, Borg, are fucked.

I wonder what the numbers for Planetary defense fleets are, Everytime i've seen ships around Earth or Kronos in peacetime i've seen no more than a couple ships. Bajor never had more than DS9. Why wouldn't major governments protect their planets? Or are the Breen the only ones capable of hitting an enemy homeworld.

There are several possibilities:
1. They are all mind-boggling stupid
2. They don't have enough ships to cover their territory

Regarding the speed of Warp drive, 2 seems to be the most logical, although 1 holds a certain appeal

[Mr Bean]

Though you might need more forces to actually garrison the conquered territory.

Much Larger, Stormys will look like Gods compared to the Ground Defense of the Feddys but still 50k Troops can't control 50 Billion People

[Master of Ossus]

You primarily need ground troops. An ISD is designed to be a portion of an attack force against ONE inhabited world in SW. It would obviously be able to conquer vastly more territory against a ST power. The problem is, though, that it does not carry enough troops to do that. It would not take very many ISD's, but it would require vast armies of additional troops.

[Soontir C'boath]

Can we just keep bringing in a supply of large flotillas of transports filled with troops to garrison those planets?

Cyaround,
Jason

[Master of Ossus]

Can we just keep bringing in a supply of large flotillas of transports filled with troops to garrison those planets?

Cyaround,
Jason

There are ships who fulfill the role of troop transports, but it is unclear of how large and fast these ships are, as well as how many garrisons they can deploy. They would almost certainly be the best solution.

[aerius]

I wonder what the numbers for Planetary defense fleets are, Everytime i've seen ships around Earth or Kronos in peacetime i've seen no more than a couple ships. Bajor never had more than DS9. Why wouldn't major governments protect their planets? Or are the Breen the only ones capable of hitting an enemy homeworld.

There are several possibilities:
1. They are all mind-boggling stupid
2. They don't have enough ships to cover their territory

Regarding the speed of Warp drive, 2 seems to be the most logical, although 1 holds a certain appeal

I think it's more option 1 than anything else. Let's see, they have 150 member worlds, a bunch of small to medium colonies, and at least a couple thousand starships. You'd think that there's enough ships to go around, but given starfleet stupidity the ships are always in deep space studying nebulas and gas clouds.

Also supporting the stupidity theory, you'd think that they'd put up somthing better than that pathetic "Mars defense perimeter" after the first borg attack. Earth defense fleet? Nope. Orbital defense platforms? Nope. Planetary defenses & shields? Nope. One could probaly walk right into starfleet command and kill everyone before they could stop you.

[TheDarkling]

Earth does have ground based defenses and possibly orbital ones from DS9 Season 5 Onwards there is a fleet near earth and after that at least something remains.

ALso shielding is more than likely presents even if it isnt a full planetary one and simply a series of small ones.

[Cpt_Frank]

I think it's more option 1 than anything else. Let's see, they have 150 member worlds, a bunch of small to medium colonies, and at least a couple thousand starships. You'd think that there's enough ships to go around, but given starfleet stupidity the ships are always in deep space studying nebulas and gas clouds.

Also supporting the stupidity theory, you'd think that they'd put up somthing better than that pathetic "Mars defense perimeter" after the first borg attack. Earth defense fleet? Nope. Orbital defense platforms? Nope. Planetary defenses & shields? Nope. One could probaly walk right into starfleet command and kill everyone before they could stop you.

Well they probably have a great many colonies, possibly thousands or tens of thousands. Most of their science-pleasure-cruisers-of-the-line
will be making cargo runs to small colonies (like the E-D does frequently on the show) so they'll probably have only a handful of starships actually in the systems of the major planets while the rest is performing the other duties.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

You wouldn't even need 100 ISDs. Just a few cold slag several major population and industiral centers and destroy many shipyards in a matter of a few weeks. Once SF is gone, the rest of the UFP can be assilimated into Imperial society.

[paladin]

I think Vader with a squad of Storm Troopers could take over the Federation. Vader would just have to slap the Feddie President around until he surrenders. Which should take about 2 minutes. The Stormies are along to deal with any pajama clad bozos that tell Vader he can't see the President.

[EmperorMing]

Actually, you should plan for an occupation force to be waay greater than is currently being suggested here.

1 ISD equivalent in orbit minimum. At least 1 major Imperial installation per landmass. All interplanetary communications cut/controlled by the Imperials (of course ). Capture as many bases as possible and convert them to your use. Keep a major (or several medium sized) reserve groups to crush *any* token of resistance. And of course the Deathstar for those sledgehammer displays. That's just for starters.

You will need a *lot* of troops on those planets to keep them in line. You could probably start with a rough approximation of what it could take to occupy our planet and go from there...

More to follow.

[Master of Ossus]

Actually, you should plan for an occupation force to be waay greater than is currently being suggested here.

1 ISD equivalent in orbit minimum. At least 1 major Imperial installation per landmass. All interplanetary communications cut/controlled by the Imperials (of course ). Capture as many bases as possible and convert them to your use. Keep a major (or several medium sized) reserve groups to crush *any* token of resistance. And of course the Deathstar for those sledgehammer displays. That's just for starters.

You will need a *lot* of troops on those planets to keep them in line. You could probably start with a rough approximation of what it could take to occupy our planet and go from there...

More to follow.

Why do you need a ship that is capable of killing all life on a planet in orbit around each planet? Remember that these ISD's can move from planet to planet in a matter of hours. If there is any serious problem, a centralized fleet could easily dispatch a ship or two to deal with it through the destruction of a major city or even the entire planet. It is completely unecessary to have a ship in orbit around every planet. Now, you will need large numbers of stormtroopers, but frankly, for the most part, fear will actually work to keep them in line. Are you going to revolt against a civilization that can easily destroy your entire world, and against which you are almost powerless? Of course not. There would be a vast number of collaborators involved in any such situation. It would probably take no more than five or six million troops to occupy even the largest and most important worlds in ST effectively.

Now, conquering the Federation in the first place would take more resources than that, but once the planets had been subjugated they would be relatively easy to hang onto.

[EmperorMing]

From what I understand, the Emperor was in the process of building up a force vast enough to secure every star system. Might as well enforce that policy on newly conquered worlds... ( I read that as a starship presence in every system. You probably see something different. No biggie.)

To reiterate, 1 ISD *equivalent* on orbit per system, plus ground troops for occupation directly after the conquest. I trust nothing. A blaster to the head gets your point across quite clearly.

BTW, If I am going to be using the fear concept, why not back it up with a visible presence? That and a dual fold point: the Empire is vast enough and powerful enough where it can *garrison* 1 ISD equivalent in every system. Those 2 points should make most thinkers get along or get slagged...

*Little Johnny looks into his telescope and sees the big bad ISD ready to turn his family to slag if daddy doesn't co-operate...* "Please daddy, don't get slagged by the guys in white...!"

Form what I gather about your post, your force considerations are for well after the conquest when most of the population is comfortable with Imperial rule.

[Master of Ossus]

1. You assume that AQ worlds are just as difficult to subdue as Imperial worlds. This is not true because they do not have the same level of technology, and have no realistic ability to harm an ISD.
2. You assume that such a force is necessary for the Empire, even when the Empire maintained good control without such substantial forces.
3. You do not need to have a visible space-force in order to use fear of force. The people on those planets will know that, if they rebel, an Imperial warship with firepower capable of slagging the entire world will almost certainly be there within hours. In addition, stormtroopers are a more visible force, anyway, than an orbital ISD.

My estimates are not for well after Imperial rule has been established. The Empire need only conquer the world and then move its main starfleets on. Little Johny will know that an ISD is hours from slagging the planet, or will assume so. There is no way that there would be significant resistance against such a massive force on any large scales on former UFP worlds, even immediately after conquest.

[EmperorMing]

The use of "Fear of Force" is usefull when you don't have the visible presence to maintain in all systems.

Keeping the equivalent of one 1 ISD in each system *is* my assumption; I had read this from the WEG sourcebook on the Deathstar and Imperial forces in general. Mind you I don't know what the force levels were desired for a visible presence, so yes, I am assuming.

"You assume that AQ worlds are just as difficult to subdue as Imperial worlds. This is not true because they do not have the same level of technology, and have no realistic ability to harm an ISD."

Yes, I do assume they would be as difficult to conquer. Yes, it is quite possibly an over estimation of the enemy. I would still rather err on the side of overkill. Mind you, the remote possibility for the populace to actually resist and forstall a groundforce will figure into my planning. I still want a significant orbital presence to drive home the fact that the garrison troops are backed up with *immediate* retalliation, and not something hours away. (Of course, giving the rebels the opportunity to soil several sets uf underclothes while the retalliation force arrives is a neat concept).

However, I would want them there in any case. Might as well prepare for the rest of the galactic conquest.

[EmperorMing]

Overall, I see this as overestimating and underestimating the enemy. The happy balance probably lies somewhere between what we propose.