The Wet Rag Speaks Out...

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Mr Bean
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Post by Mr Bean »

It's perfectly apparent what has to be done. Just have the current ST chief writers/whatever produce a technical manual with some very big numbers in it and state that it overrides everything else. Problem (such as it is) solved.
Ahh another whine :roll:
Kindly forgetting that Tecnical Manuals are never cannon for ST :roll:
Yet another Sci-Fi fan suffering from Penis envy, You don't have a big car so you get a big Sci-Fi, oooh to bad when you find out that there a hundreds of Sci-Fi's which are stronger and suddenly your looking small
Another way would be taking some lessons from Andromeda: When firing torps in warp, Fed ships pass on a short-lived warp feild from their warp feild to the missile, sending it at the ship they're engaging (ST Encylopedia entry "photon torpedos") . Well, what if you threw your entire warp field into boosting your torps to Warp 9.9 while in normal space? A torp slamming into an Imperial Starship at 42 billion mps ("The 37s" VOY) is nothing to sneeze at.
You forgetting agian Talon that anything in subspace takes a roughly 1000% hit in power even if you accelrate it to 9.99999999999999999 in Warp your not doing much damage as less than 1%(.001% to get that high) is acutal in Warp so basicly you have roughly somthing the size of half a dime hitting the ISD though going realy fast

And that frankly is not much

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Post by ClaysGhost »

Mr Bean wrote: Ahh another whine :roll:
Kindly forgetting that Tecnical Manuals are never cannon for ST :roll:
A) Whine? What are you talking about? He asked what would have to be done, I gave the simplest answer I knew of. I don't particularly care about either side, although I'll address that further below, because I like the idea so much.

B) I assume that if the writers wrote a technical manual saying "Behold! All that we and previous writers said about startrek technologies in similar publications to this and even in the series is rubbish. This is the only reference." it'd be canon. I never said this was probable or even possible, note you.
Yet another Sci-Fi fan suffering from Penis envy, You don't have a big car so you get a big Sci-Fi, oooh to bad when you find out that there a hundreds of Sci-Fi's which are stronger and suddenly your looking small
I'm sorry, you must have mistaken me for a Star Trek fan (that'll have me laughing all day, thanks). Are you trying to fit me to some sort of template here, or does everyone get this abuse? And thanks for assuming that my knowledge of sci-fi started with Star Trek as well. That's a good one.

And finally, because I couldn't resist, I think you meant "canon". A bit picky, I know, but I'm feeling suddenly malicious.
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Post by Mr Bean »

I spell Cannon with two N's because I damn well feel like it :D

I have yet to listen to a single complant

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>_<

Post by Andrew Joshua Talon »

Hey, cool it. Trek set the stage for most modern sci fi. It's not necessary to bash it.

Okay, back on topic:
Feddie Armour:
Take the Endgame armour, graft it to the hulls of their starships (as I already stated before) and run a SIF through it, which would give it the same strength but without the waste in power of deploying it in the first place.

Spiral Phaser cannons: This brilliant idea is Ender's. The longer a Phaser strip is the more powerful they are. Thus, if you spiral a phaser bank you can fit more length (and thus power) in a smaller space. If you built a starship essentially around a SPC (like the A-10 is around it's Avenger) and hook the thing directly into it's warp core, you've got a weapon that might be able to punch through Imperial sheilds. At the very least it grants you greater firepower.

Horizontal Warp Cores: The longer a warp core, the more powerful it is. THus, design ships to have their warp cores run length-wise, getting the most out of it's size. Also, you can eject the core backwards and essentially have a very large missile if need be.

Warship Accomadations: Cut holodecks out of the ships entirely. Have replicators only in the mess hall, main engineering, and sickbay. Cut the size of quarters as much as possible to save space for weapons.

And the posting goes on...
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>_<

Post by Andrew Joshua Talon »

Hey, cool it. Trek set the stage for most modern sci fi. It's not necessary to bash it.

Okay, back on topic:
Feddie Armour:
Take the Endgame armour, graft it to the hulls of their starships (as I already stated before) and run a SIF through it, which would give it the same strength but without the waste in power of deploying it in the first place.

Spiral Phaser cannons: This brilliant idea is Ender's. The longer a Phaser strip is the more powerful they are. Thus, if you spiral a phaser bank you can fit more length (and thus power) in a smaller space. If you built a starship essentially around a SPC (like the A-10 is around it's Avenger) and hook the thing directly into it's warp core, you've got a weapon that might be able to punch through Imperial sheilds. At the very least it grants you greater firepower.

Horizontal Warp Cores: The longer a warp core, the more powerful it is. THus, design ships to have their warp cores run length-wise, getting the most out of it's size. Also, you can eject the core backwards and essentially have a very large missile if need be.

Warship Accomadations: Cut holodecks out of the ships entirely. Have replicators only in the mess hall, main engineering, and sickbay. Cut the size of quarters as much as possible to save space for weapons.

And the posting goes on...
"Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics..." Admiral Rickover


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Oops

Post by Andrew Joshua Talon »

Heh, kind of hit the button twice there, huh? Sorry.
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Re: >_<

Post by Knife »

Andrew Joshua Talon wrote:Hey, cool it. Trek set the stage for most modern sci fi. It's not necessary to bash it.

Okay, back on topic:
Feddie Armour:
Take the Endgame armour, graft it to the hulls of their starships (as I already stated before) and run a SIF through it, which would give it the same strength but without the waste in power of deploying it in the first place.

Spiral Phaser cannons: This brilliant idea is Ender's. The longer a Phaser strip is the more powerful they are. Thus, if you spiral a phaser bank you can fit more length (and thus power) in a smaller space. If you built a starship essentially around a SPC (like the A-10 is around it's Avenger) and hook the thing directly into it's warp core, you've got a weapon that might be able to punch through Imperial sheilds. At the very least it grants you greater firepower.

Horizontal Warp Cores: The longer a warp core, the more powerful it is. THus, design ships to have their warp cores run length-wise, getting the most out of it's size. Also, you can eject the core backwards and essentially have a very large missile if need be.

Warship Accomadations: Cut holodecks out of the ships entirely. Have replicators only in the mess hall, main engineering, and sickbay. Cut the size of quarters as much as possible to save space for weapons.

And the posting goes on...

Why would you run a SIF through it? It's armor, keep the energy for the shields thats what they are there fore. If you want to use the energy for other protective uses, have another shield for redundency.

Make the guns too big and you run into power problems, not with the guns but lack of power for anything else. Power is your first problem, then worry about weapons.


If your warp core is horizontal, the I guess that means either the matter injector or anti matter injector is in the bow of the ship. That might not be a wise design.


Yes, cut all the unnecessary space out and the unnecessary power drains out but save the space for power generation, then worry about weapons.
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Re: >_<

Post by Cpt_Frank »

Andrew Joshua Talon wrote:Hey, cool it. Trek set the stage for most modern sci fi. It's not necessary to bash it.
That's the truth for TOS, however, SW was based on 50s and 60s sci-fi such as Flash Gordon and Korusawa's hidden fortress, and B5 and the Culture were also very original just to name a few.

TNG wasn't the great adventure show TOS was, it was all about moralising and political correctness etc, while DS9 and VOY and ENT were/are nothing more like mindless repetitions of the same boring concepts.
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Re: Hm?

Post by CmdrWilkens »

Andrew Joshua Talon wrote:
The Akira goes the right way, although you'll need many with many torps to actually scratch an ISD's shields. SF's best bet is to switch to small ships and to modify the hulls of the big ships to giant bombs.
Standard torps, yeah, but if we follow Wong's advice and boost the yeild on the torps (subspace compression of the warhead material would be a good start) to >100 MT, then we can actually start hurting the Imps without having to expend our entire inventory. Just modify all our ships to carry multiple launchers and we can do plenty of damage.
Your problem is you need to raise torpedo yields into the GT range before you are going to harm front-line warships larger than a Corellian Corvette. If you read through Mr Bean's low-end and mid-range calcs you'll note that shield systems in SW can be measured in the TT and PT range while weapons go from GT to TT range. In other words the best weapons in ST are at least 3 orders of magntiude too weak to make a serious dent in SW vessels. Tricks like "subspace compression" won't get you as good a set of results as two simple solutions:

1) Use denser matter: Sure deuterium is abundant enough but if you annihilate denser materials you get more energy per volume.

2) Shaped explosions: use good old 20th century tech to focus your energy yield on a smaller space which might help punch holes in Imperial shielding that might llow follwo on strikes to hit paydirt.
Another way would be taking some lessons from Andromeda: When firing torps in warp, Fed ships pass on a short-lived warp feild from their warp feild to the missile, sending it at the ship they're engaging (ST Encylopedia entry "photon torpedos") . Well, what if you threw your entire warp field into boosting your torps to Warp 9.9 while in normal space? A torp slamming into an Imperial Starship at 42 billion mps ("The 37s" VOY) is nothing to sneeze at.
Here's the problem. No ST vessel has EVER engaged a non-FTL target at FTL speeds even when it would be advantageous to do so ("Way of the Warrior" comes to mind). While the Picard Manuever would be a realisitc tactic (it has been used on multiple occasions) "Warp Straffing" does not exist. Moreso vessels moving at warp speeds do not have a correspondingly equal "real world" velocity. The velocity of the torpedo will nto change and it will never be granted amazing KE impact energies that are nto added to it to begin with. In other words moving at warp does not change your "non-warp" KE so that imapct velocity is a non-factor as the object won't be moving at warp anymore.

Additionally the Encyclopedia and TM are both unallowed material for most debates here. If you haven't heard th reason why just ask btu I will assume for the time being that you know that they are not allowed.
There are problems with this: Firing from long range allows the Imps FTL sensors to track the torp and possibly shoot it down. From short range, it would work only if A: The Fed ship squeezed off the shot fast enough before it would be blown to bits and B: The Fed ship got out of there before the blast got them. And aiming might be difficult, but it would at least eliminate the problem of boosting our warhead power.
Well it is a better tactic than stand-up dogfights but you still have to up your firepower or the ISD (or even a Neb-B) wiull simply shrug off your hits and keep on going.
The big, useless ships like Galaxies would be perfect as flying bombs, but it's not nessescary to drop them out of warp to ram into an ISD at 0.9c. Just fly them relatively near the ISDs at Warp 2 or so and they'll do plenty of damage. Even if they only graze the Imp it'll cause a pretty big boom.
The damaged caused will only be the equivalnet of their real-world KE plus roughly half the explosive power of the warp core (after you subtract the enegy neccessary for said core to disintegrate the ship). Moreso this assumes that an ISD won't simply outrun the /Galaxy/ in the other direciton since they have vastly superior straight line acceleration. It also assumes that a vessel on suicide course wouldn't be a huge target for disintegration by the ISD's (or other vessel) heavy weapons.
Yes, we could, but only if we failed to close the wormhole that brought the Empire to this galaxy in the first place. Flying bomb ships would probably be best for this: Anything traveling at about Warp 9 is difficult to stop, even with FTL sensors and especially if they're a lot of them. One good sized anti-matter explosion in the wormhole and the Imp forces already here are all we have to worry about for about seventy years ("The Search Part II" DS9)

Ummmm. You are assuming:
1) That the invasion route is via wormhole rather than just crossing intergalactic space
2) That the distance if they had to cross intergalactic would be such as to make the journey seventy years long.

Those two assumptions weigh very heavily towards unrealisitcs. Now the wormhole scenario is a common one but it isn't the only one and if you are relying on a wormhole defense then you implicitly agree that the AQ has no chance if the Empire is not constrained to a single avenue of approach.
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Post by Mr Bean »

Additionally the Encyclopedia and TM are both unallowed material for most debates here. If you haven't heard th reason why just ask btu I will assume for the time being that you know that they are not allowed.
The Encyclopedia and TM are not considered Cannon by the Studio, Its a long standing point of contention between Warsys and Trekkys is that while Warsy EU is cannon Trekky EU is NOT, Conquently people like Darkstar try and get it thrown out all the time

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Post by CmdrWilkens »

Mr Bean wrote:
Additionally the Encyclopedia and TM are both unallowed material for most debates here. If you haven't heard th reason why just ask btu I will assume for the time being that you know that they are not allowed.
The Encyclopedia and TM are not considered Cannon by the Studio, Its a long standing point of contention between Warsys and Trekkys is that while Warsy EU is cannon Trekky EU is NOT, Conquently people like Darkstar try and get it thrown out all the time
I was thinking about actually explaining to him about Tim Gaskill and John Ordover but then realized I'd be wasting my breath...and I could pad my post count replying to you.
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Post by Master of Ossus »

The reason we use Star Wars EU while not using ST EU is that the canon policies for LFL and Paramount are different on the subject. In SW, two completed manuscripts were rejected because they were inconsistent with SW continuity. ST has no such control measures. Writers are free to do whatever they want with their books. That is not necessarily bad, but it also means that the technical abilities used in many novels are also inconsistent with the show. Since ST books are not part of ST continuity, and SW books are, we use SW books for these debates but not ST ones.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Remembers the Orion Planet Killer from Doctor's Orders.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Oh, and basicly, take one very large asteriod, hallow the <****>-er out and then fill with automated weapon system's, shield generators, antimatter reactors, and Warp Engines. The only way it was beaten was that McCoy got the Klingon's to ram it at Warp Speed while Cloaked (After the Klingon's beamed most of there crew down),

Completly impossible in Trek verse btw.
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Re: Hm...

Post by Slartibartfast »

Andrew Joshua Talon wrote:The Borg ALSO rely on subspace! However, I'm not sure the computers on Fed ships really rely on subspace. It's probably only their warp core and comm system that really needs it. That, and sheilds.
They use some sort of time compression field to cheat the computer into doing faster calculations... not sure if it's some kind of Warp Field. Basically, it makes time go faster inside it, so the computer can make more calcs in less *real* time.

Sorry, don't have the canon to back this up. I'm guessing I saw it or heard it in the show, but it could have just been hearsay.

Anyway the worst that could happen is to make computers use 1/4 their speed or so, not really disable them.
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